Just how is America going to come back together and agree on anything ever again? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14917238
Today America is divided into groups. The 2 main ones are the Trumpsters and the Anti-Trumpsters. There are others, like the “I don't pay any attention-sters”.

The problem I see is that America has no way to get those 2 main groups to ever again be one group.

I will use 2 historical examples.
1] In the 1850s America was divided into slaveholders (with their hanger-oners) and the free labor group (and their hanger-oners). There was the Civil War, but it didn't end the split. In fact, the split is still around 150 years later.

2] I was pointed to a book some years ago. “They Thought They Were Free” is/was about how lower level Nazis felt about the war and things in 1940-1950. The author was an American history Prof. who decided to research how Nazis felt by going to Germany disguised as a visiting Prof. And get to know well 10 low ranking Nazis. Befriend them, get them to trust him, and find out what they really thought.
. . . The results are not very encouraging. Of the 10, 1 was never a real Nazi who only joined the Party to avoid being exposed as an anti-Nazi. He, of course, saw that what the Nazis did to the Jews, in the war, etc. was very evil. The other 9 were real Nazis. Everyone of them did not see what the Nazis did as evil at all. They explained things as being the result of losing the war.
. . . So, 3 or 4 years after the war was over and the magnitude of Nazi evil was laid out for all to see. *Not one* of the lower level Nazis would agree that the Party they had belonged to had done anything wrong, except lose the war.

I consider myself well read. To my knowledge. historically the main methods used to create one nation out of several groups of people involved mass murder, reeducation camps, the gulag, etc.

America is not going to use any of those methods. So, how is American going to get one of those 2 main groups to give it up and accept they they were wrong and the other one was right, and change their mindset to reflect that acceptance? If neither side accepts this change then is it likely that 150 years from now, America will still be divided into what can be seen as decedents of Trumpsters and Anti-Trumpsters?
#14917261
Steve_American wrote: To my knowledge. historically the main methods used to create one nation out of several groups of people involved mass murder, reeducation camps, the gulag, etc.
There have been countless nations in history and I dont remember many of them ever resorting to such methods against their own people. And the result of such methods never was more unity, but rather a shock and shame to the population.

Switzerland for example doesnt even have a shared language; while the majority speak german, a lot of swiss speak french and others speak italian and raeto roman. Yet theres no lack of unity in switzerland at all.

Specifically the USA has never been united. The USA got strong because of the melting pot - many different nations joining into one, leading to a time of many ideas and inventions.
#14917268
This time might be different. The last time we were this divided, it ended with a civil war and a brutal suppression in the aftermath. And there are still widespread elements in the south that want to fight that war all over again. America is used to being divided. Even as we entered each world war, popular opinions were quite divided. It took a major catalyst to get us into the second one. Which brings me to another point - when catalyzed, such as on 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, we Americans tend to lose our collective minds. We become our best and worst simultaneously. This is about the only conditions by which we are unified, and even then we have fringe elements who are not swayed by such emotionally cathartic events.
But since 9/11, the last catalyst event, was so cynically used to promote an ulterior motive (invasion of Iraq), the mold may broken. The next event may not unify, but rather further divide. Already nations like Russia know they can use our own social divisions against us, can promote those divisions, and possibly even fray the fabric of our society. But these divisions are not of their making; they are organic, local, and entirely American.
I see several ways towards reunification. The least likely is that Americans get sick and tired of propaganda and ban it, or at least act to limit it. More likely, Americans get used to division as the status quo, and 2 Americas emerge. United, but self segregated. The most likely scenario involves a sort of "Titors war", a civil war over control of the Government, and Govt. control over its citizens that flares up and dies down over the course of decades with the occasional atrocity committed using Govt. resources. Titors war, as described by Titor, ends with Russia nuking American cities. But that may not be the ultimate end to this scenario. The final scenario is that one side gains complete control and moves to wipe out the other. This is also very unlikely because America seem to be evenly divided. This last scenario usually only happens when one side is the vast majority and moves against a small minority - or when a coup happens in a region of historically suppressed hatreds. That might be America 50 years from now, but it's certainly not America today.
#14919783
Americans came together in a big way twice in their long history:

After 1776, Americans "came together" to genocide all the nations east of the Mississippi.

After the Civil War, Americans "came together" to genocide all the nations west of the Mississippi.

It's better for other nations when Americans stay divided. Same applies to most organized crime families.
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