Why are many Americans still homophobic? - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14923014
I wasn't commenting on your Quaker post, was I? I was commenting on your silly comment saying that homosexuality wasn't natural, and then your further comment saying that only males and females could procreate in nature. I dissembled both arguments, so now you are back to talking about me. I am flattered, but please, get back on topic.

It seems that Americans are mainly homophobic mainly because of poor education and religious propaganda. Immaturity amongst some is also a prevailing factor.

Education and social contact are usually enough to dispell all but the worst bigotry.
#14923092
Pants-of-dog wrote:Homophobic people are more likely to be anti-social and immature

Homophobic people are likely to be religious, older, traditional, less educated and have had limited contact with LGBT+ people

The more comfortable a man is in his masculinity, the less likely he is to be homophobic


Saying LGBT+ people are ‘born that way’ is not the best argument

Here, you sound like the older girl at an elementary school, calling all the younger boys "immature, uneducated, and uncomfortable with themselves."

You also remind me of Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables" remark that made her so loathed by ordinary people.

Why not look at the immaturity of many men as a symptom of their sexual repression? Perhaps most men suffer greatly from not being permitted to enjoy natural sexual satisfaction from the age of puberty, and this makes them grow up immature and uncomfortable with themselves.

Accusing ordinary people of being stupid, uneducated and uncomfortable with themselves, is a great way of ignoring the rotting social system that puts them into a behaviorist straight-jacket from the time they hit puberty.

Pants, you're just a cheerleader for the straight-jacket.
#14923138
Godstud wrote:https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/science/article/2016/07/15/science-homophobia-and-how-cure-it

This article makes some interesting points, but has little depth.

Personally, I think homophobia is based on an individual's immersion in consensual reality and stress levels. It's complex and to a certain degree it's relative to environment. Susceptibility to it can vary greatly from individual to individual, but will in general chart as a typical bell curve within any given group.

Searching for a simple answer is admirable, but likely only to "muddy the waters."

Zam
#14923240
Organized Religion and the mafia-like cliquiness of "believers" is behind several "phobias."

The early American religious communities had "Red Nation a phobia" that lead to 110 genocides - for Jesus.

Blacks were strung up dead on nooses on trees, by religious people who were paranoid that they were losing the "hewers of wood, drawers of water" role that the Bible "assigned people with black skin." Slave-a-phobia and Freed-slave-a-phobia also killed many innocent people. For Jesus.

That gays often get bashed by people from "religious areas" is no surprise. Religious people are trained to feel incomfortable with nature in general, and this makes them angry and violent towards "non-believers" of their sick cults.
#14923420
Personally I find the idea that human beings are "natural" very, very funny.

We have found out that our anchestors have eaten cooked food since at least about a million years. Since when is cooked food natural ?

We also know that human beings have used increasingly well made stone tools since million of years. Heck, apes dont process stones or sticks in any way, but when they see a danger like a tiger arrive, they will throw stones and sticks at them, too.

Also there have been hints that human beings used wooden spears about 700,000 years ago, and probably a lot longer, since these spears have been made from wood (the top was hardened in fire) and thus dont withstand the passage of time. To boot, no other animal is as good at throwing spears as human beings are, so we have adapted to that as well.

A quite large part of mankind has adapted to drinking milk so well, they can now process milk sugar, even as adults. About just ten thousands to years ago no adult could do that.

None of these things are natural.

Thus being obsessed with "natural" is unnatural for human beings. Intelligence has made us artificial, and this process is only accelerating. We have invented medicine, modern medicine, glasses, dental fillings, artificial hips, cardiac peacemakers, etc etc.


And yes as a heterosexual man I'm not comfortable seeing homosexual men in relationship related activities, not even harmless stuff like holding hands.

But why would that matter ? Nobody is comfortable in thinking about how their parents, siblings or children have sex. Does that mean that parents, siblings and children shouldnt be allowed to have sex ? Obviously not. And its the same with old people, or with ugly people.

Also obviously most heterosexual men dont have any trouble with two homosexual women having sex. Doesnt matter either. But shows that heterosexual men dont object to all homosexuality per se.
#14923504
Negotiator wrote:Personally I find the idea that human beings are "natural" very, very funny.

We have found out that our anchestors have eaten cooked food since at least about a million years. Since when is cooked food natural ?

We also know that human beings have used increasingly well made stone tools since million of years. Heck, apes dont process stones or sticks in any way, but when they see a danger like a tiger arrive, they will throw stones and sticks at them, too.

Also there have been hints that human beings used wooden spears about 700,000 years ago, and probably a lot longer, since these spears have been made from wood (the top was hardened in fire) and thus dont withstand the passage of time. To boot, no other animal is as good at throwing spears as human beings are, so we have adapted to that as well.

A quite large part of mankind has adapted to drinking milk so well, they can now process milk sugar, even as adults. About just ten thousands to years ago no adult could do that.

None of these things are natural.

Thus being obsessed with "natural" is unnatural for human beings. Intelligence has made us artificial, and this process is only accelerating. We have invented medicine, modern medicine, glasses, dental fillings, artificial hips, cardiac peacemakers, etc etc.


And yes as a heterosexual man I'm not comfortable seeing homosexual men in relationship related activities, not even harmless stuff like holding hands.

But why would that matter ? Nobody is comfortable in thinking about how their parents, siblings or children have sex. Does that mean that parents, siblings and children shouldnt be allowed to have sex ? Obviously not. And its the same with old people, or with ugly people.

Also obviously most heterosexual men dont have any trouble with two homosexual women having sex. Doesnt matter either. But shows that heterosexual men dont object to all homosexuality per se.

Our technology is natural in that it is in our nature to be technological. I personally don't consider any human generated technology as unnatural, including the most high tech stuff: particle super-colliders etc or quantum computers.

I suppose the use of "not natural" in the context of homosexual relations could be parsed as "unhealthy" for precision. It isn't completely uncommon to legislate against unhealthy behaviours, tobacco smokers are under some pressure these days for example, the raison d'etre for that is to serve the interests of "public health".
#14923506
Solarcross wrote:I suppose the use of "not natural" in the context of homosexual relations could be parsed as "unhealthy" for precision. It isn't completely uncommon to legislate against unhealthy behaviours, tobacco smokers are under some pressure these days for example, the raison d'etre for that is to serve the interests of "public health".
Homosexuals, though, do not necessarily engage in sex that is a health risk. People make a lot of assumptions about this, without actually knowing. A heterosexual couple may engage in risky sexual behavior, but we certainly aren't trying to legislate laws against their sexual conduct, are we?
#14923511
Godstud wrote:Homosexuals, though, do not necessarily engage in sex that is a health risk. People make a lot of assumptions about this, without actually knowing. A heterosexual couple may engage in risky sexual behavior, but we certainly aren't trying to legislate laws against their sexual conduct, are we?

There is some health risk in anything. I once got a paper cut while reading a book, it didn't really hurt but there was a small chance the cut could create a way in for flesh-eating antibiotic resistant bacterias... You can't really say there is no health risk in homosexual sex. True enough though that the risk might be relatively comparable to all sorts of other activities that some of us would prefer to remain free from legal persecution. I'm an ex-smoker now so I don't care a hoot if smoking finally gets made fully illegal, but when I was of course I perceived it to be in my interests for tobacco to be ideally untaxed and usable just about anywhere, especially pubs.
#14923583
Solarcross wrote:You can't really say there is no health risk in homosexual sex.
:lol: There is a health risk in all sex. I once got hurt doing "The Suspended Congress". The "health risk", isn't a valid argument.

The government should stay out of people's bedrooms, and people like you should be less concerned about what consenting adults are doing in those bedrooms.
#14923619
Godstud wrote::lol: There is a health risk in all sex. I once got hurt doing "The Suspended Congress". The "health risk", isn't a valid argument.

Isn't that just what I said? Whether it is a valid argument is a matter of perspective. A lot of people think the govs should weigh in on public health issues. I tend to prefer they don't, but that is a thing that happens, just saying.

Godstud wrote:The government should stay out of people's bedrooms, and people like you should be less concerned about what consenting adults are doing in those bedrooms.


People like me? Care to expand on that?
#14923620
Don't worry about it. I probably just misunderstood where you were coming from. We seem to be on the same page.
#14939758
Negotiator ranted about how nothing is natural, and then wrote:...And yes as a heterosexual man I'm not comfortable seeing homosexual men in relationship related activities, not even harmless stuff like holding hands. ...

This is because your fake, technological world doesn't permit you to appreciate the natural way things and people are. This fake, techno world (that you find natural, or perhaps nature doesn't exist) is also driving us towards extinction. Perhaps most people aren't comfortable with the natural world, and thus we must all go extinct so that they feel "safe."
#14939777
Beren wrote:Why are many Americans still backward in general? Because it's not about gays only, it could be about anything. Many Americans could be Eastern Europeans. If you're a Putin fan, for example, you're Eastern European in soul.


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