What do you think will be the outcome of the summit between Kim Jong-in and Donald Trump? - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14924696
Kirillov wrote:We've had one summit with a fairly non-committal protocol signed. For comparison, it was a long and torturous path that took Reagan and Gorbachev from 'one summit in which positive things were said' to 'the Soviet Union will no longer enforce communism in the signatories of the Warsaw Pact'.

I have no faith that Trump is either capable or willing to undertake that kind of tortuous path. Gorbachev and Reagan were both inspired by conviction, rightly or wrongly, which allowed them to take a policy path lasting years. I don't believe that is the case here, especially with regards to Trump.


The myth that Reagan somehow brought down the SU is as persistent as it is false. So I won't bother with it here. To think that the "conviction" of third rate actor like Reagan could have changed history is even more hilarious.

The factors that led to the dismantling of the SU were all on the SU side. That won't happen again. Putin, Xi and Kim have all learned from history.

Anyways, NK is just an insignificant side show that flares up or quiets down depending on what lever Beijing wants to pull in its trade game with the US.

I'm all in favor of the two meeting, but Trump is a hapless clown who is being played by Beijing and Pyongyang. To suggest that he achieved something that previous presidents could not have achieved is ridiculous. Kim was so desperate to meet with world leaders that he would have gladly met with any US undersecretary.

I never exclude the possibility of a miracle happening, but I can't see that Kim is going to give up his nukes and I can't see that the US is going to give up the sanctions.

Consistency obvious doesn't play any role in Trump's arbitrary policies, but Kim would have to accept a tougher deal than Iran if the US were to go soft on NK. I just don't see that.
#14924698
colliric wrote:Yeah? So what....

So was Nixon's famous week-long Chinese visit....

No it wasn't. Nixon's visit was representative of the American capitalist offering an olive branch to China following the US defeat in Vietnam. They struck a bargain which involved the opening of factories so as to exploit Chinese cheap labor, enrich the capitalists in the balance, and promote Chinese economic development in China. It was partly a strategy to promote mutual ties through economic relations following the failure of containment. It might also have been indicative of capitalist designs on Vietnam following American victory (though it would have been without government mediation, unlike China).

Somewhat ironically, this grand bargain with China is what America is now suffering the hangover from, in the way of deindustrialization. The impetus to the current reactionary protectionist policies have these aforementioned circumstances as their context.
#14924730
Rugoz wrote:This is hilarious. Trump saluting a gulag-operating commie general. American right-wing media would have gone batshit insane if Obama did this. :lol:

Image

Even that general is holding out his hand and thinking "what the fuck is he doing?"

At least he isn't holding coffee. Then the right would totally take it seriously.
#14924749
Zagadka wrote:Even that general is holding out his hand and thinking "what the fuck is he doing?"

At least he isn't holding coffee. Then the right would totally take it seriously.


if the picture is not a fake, then Trump may have had too many drinks before the meeting. :)
#14924807
Rugoz wrote:This is hilarious. Trump saluting a gulag-operating commie general. American right-wing media would have gone batshit insane if Obama did this.

I would have defended Obama if he had attempted to make peace with North Korea. What is amusing is the fact that Donald Trump, a right-winger, is in favour of several things that Obama, as a man of the left, ought to have supported.

Just as the right-wing media would have gone batshit insane if Obama had done this, so the "left-wing" media is going batshit insane now that Trump has done it.

Of course neither side would give their ideological adversary credit for anything. It is astoshing that anyone would maintain, in the present political climate, that the right is more guilty of this than the left, or vice versa.

Both sides are retarded. Leftists have become slightly more irritating to me than right-wingers, and I say this as a leftist myself. I criticise my fellow leftists - they have become even stupider than right-wingers, which I would have never have thought possible until recently.
Last edited by Vyth on 15 Jun 2018 18:27, edited 2 times in total.
#14924810
One Degree wrote:Seems like something a person would do to be polite. More hysteria over nothing.

The general shouldn't have saluted Trump and Trump shouldn't have saluted back, especially because the general's salute was rather awkward. It could be regarded as politeness that he did the wrong thing after the North Koreans acted wrong, but he provided them with the right stuff for their propaganda machine it seems.
#14924815
@One Degree, I'm surprised you didn't know Trump was a teetotaler. I agree with you that the outrage would be ridiculous if it was sincere, but most of it is just to point out the difference of coverage between the harmless (if silly or incorrect) formalities performed by Obama and Trump. I've been making the point that both American political parties and their media outlets are unprincipled and simply switch arguments depending on whose guy is committing the harmless thing.

Were you as forgiving of Obama's awkward niceties?
#14924818
Red_Army wrote:@One Degree, I'm surprised you didn't know Trump was a teetotaler. I agree with you that the outrage would be ridiculous if it was sincere, but most of it is just to point out the difference of coverage between the harmless (if silly or incorrect) formalities performed by Obama and Trump. I've been making the point that both American political parties and their media outlets are unprincipled and simply switch arguments depending on whose guy is committing the harmless thing.

Were you as forgiving of Obama's awkward niceties?


Yes, I was aware Trump was a teetotaler.
I supported Obama. I did not totally turn against him until his lame duck politicalization. I did not support all his policies, but I thought he was a good man until he proved me wrong.
Yes, I have appreciated your posts in this thread as reasonable deductions.
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