“The norms of what you can do to someone against their will have changed.”--Bill Clinton - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14924970
Sivad & Potemkin,
If you were not alive in the early to mid 60s then your opinion doesn't count for much.
On a 2nd or 3rd date placing a hand on a breast over her cloths was not considered inappropriate.
Continuing after she moved it away or said no was inappropriate. As was pussy grabbing.

Asking if you could was considered un-manly, and would therefore get an answer of 'No'.

Now-a-days, asking if she would join you for a drink or coffee is 'inappropriate'. Go figure. ;) :roll:
#14925032
Steve_American wrote:Sivad & Potemkin,
If you were not alive in the early to mid 60s then your opinion doesn't count for much.
On a 2nd or 3rd date placing a hand on a breast over her cloths was not considered inappropriate.
Continuing after she moved it away or said no was inappropriate. As was pussy grabbing.

Asking if you could was considered un-manly, and would therefore get an answer of 'No'.

Now-a-days, asking if she would join you for a drink or coffee is 'inappropriate'. Go figure. ;) :roll:

Point taken. The sexual liberation of the late 60s and 70s was primarily a liberation for men only. The patriarchy was still very much in place, and the 'liberated' men of the 60s, 70s and 80s took full advantage. They still had all of the privileges of the patriarchy, but were suddenly freed from the responsibilities and restrictions of the patriarchy. The result was a tidal wave of sexual abuse against women and children. Once the tide went out from the 1990s onwards, it exposed all the garbage and wreckage left on the beach, which is currently still being cleaned up....

Tl;dr: Fuck the Baby Boomers. :|
#14925062
blackjack21 wrote:I find it pretty amusing that Bill Clinton said this during his book tour, especially in view of #MeToo. You have to wonder what he's trying to accomplish. :lol: So He's essentially assenting to the fact that he's done things to people against their will and gotten away with it, but that his good fortune in escaping justice was just part of the times he lived in and that's all changed now. Sigh! Now contrast this with Donald Trump, who says that women will let you grab 'em by the pussy. Hilarious! :D :lol: :excited:

The Clintons just keep on giving...


The freedom to commit any sin, break every taboo, etc., is a privilege granted only to the powerful, and the envy of the weak and the powerless, who are morally outraged by behaviour that they themselves would engage in if they knew they could get away with it or if God told them they could do it. Our present moral system was invented to govern the behaviour of the masses. Controlling reproductive behaviours is particularly important, which is why so much of human morality is focused on sexual misconduct. If you want to breed a healthy human population and maintain functional civilisation, controlling the reproductive patterns of the population by means of morals, taboos, social institutions and customs (e.g. marriage), is essential.

Normal human morality does not apply to the people that rule you; the powerful are free to engage in any behaviour that they desire. This is right and proper; since if you had the same power you would accord yourself the same freedoms. All moral opposition springs from jealousy. The only sins are weakness, foolishness, and inefficiency. If one finds pleasure in behaviours that happen to be criminal, it is better to keep your crimes hidden from the public. The only sin that Bill and Hillary Clinton were guilty of was to allow their misconduct to become known to the public. But you cannot hold such individuals to the moral standards that guide your own behaviour. Also there are certain things that are forbidden to the public, not because they are necessarily harmful but because the profane masses are unworthy of knowing them. The masses would lose control over themselves, become slaves to their animal passions and fall into ruin if they were free to do whatever they wanted. Only the most ruthless and powerful of men are worthy of such freedom.
Last edited by Vyth on 16 Jun 2018 12:50, edited 1 time in total.
#14925072
Potemkin wrote:Point taken. The sexual liberation of the late 60s and 70s was primarily a liberation for men only. The patriarchy was still very much in place, and the 'liberated' men of the 60s, 70s and 80s took full advantage. They still had all of the privileges of the patriarchy, but were suddenly freed from the responsibilities and restrictions of the patriarchy. The result was a tidal wave of sexual abuse against women and children. Once the tide went out from the 1990s onwards, it exposed all the garbage and wreckage left on the beach, which is currently still being cleaned up....

Tl;dr: Fuck the Baby Boomers. :|


I hardly think allowing women to admit their sexuality was abuse. Before, you had the standard that sex was to be endured by women, not enjoyed, even though every generation knew that was not true. Women very much enjoyed being able to respond sexually where before their societal guilt prevented it.

Edit: Trump did not say he grabbed women who did not want to be grabbed. He said they let him. That is a huge difference. Sexual liberation allowed a woman to be flattered he would want to “grab their pussy”. Ofcourse, this totally depends upon the man doing it. This allows us to take opposite moral stances on his comment because it is totally relative to the people involved.
#14925134
Red_Army wrote:If I can't shit on Baby Boomers then you can't shit on Millennials since you don't know what you're talking about. I've banged plenty of girls on the first date. The chain emails you receive from other coffin dodgers about asking for permission to look a girl in the eyes are not true.


Actually, it never entered my mind I was comparing generations. I was just giving my views on that time period. Now that you mention it, I can kind of see why you would take it that way though.
#14926152
Red_Army wrote:If I can't shit on Baby Boomers then you can't shit on Millennials since you don't know what you're talking about. I've banged plenty of girls on the first date. The chain emails you receive from other coffin dodgers about asking for permission to look a girl in the eyes are not true.

Red Army, you said you were responding specifically to me.
1] I have never shit on Millennials, not here, not on any forum, and not in RL.
2] Shitting on a group because you think some of them did bad things, is not OK. OK, I get it many people are angry about the road that America took starting with Reagan. I am one of those people.
. . . But, I have 2 huge points I want to make about this.
. . . a] Not all Babyboomers agreed with that road being taken. Attacking me for this is a lot like attacking all Muslims because about 10% of them support violent jihad.
. . . b] I am one of the oldest Babyboomers, when Reagan was sworn in I was 35 yr old. Most other Babyboomers were younger than that. Why in Hell's name do you think that it was Babyboomers that caused America to go down that road? Why do you give a pass to the 2 older generations who were in power at the time and owned homes and didn't want to pay raising taxes on them? Why don't you say you hate them more?
. . . c] Under Reagan the FICA tax was raised by about x2 to convert the then 'pay as you go' system into a 'pay a head of time system'. Now there is close to $3T in the SS Trust Fund and those dollars are being used to pay my Soc. Sec. And I paid for my parents SS too.

I certainly voted in every election to stop the current decision to go down and to continue down the road that has led us to this point. Except for Clinton and Obama who I thought were not going to keep us going down that road, but that is what they did. For me the main problems are 1] the decision to gut the labor movement which allowed wages to stagnate while productivity and profits continued to rise. And 2] the acceptance of supply-side economics and now Neo-liberal economics as the Main Stream economic theory even though it has not delivered in any way what it said the results would be. It is a total failure, yet you-all here still believe the nonsense. (Except for a few)

So, Red Army, why do you hate Boomers but *not* the 2 preceding generations who were much more to blame for the mess America is in now?
#14926187
Steve_American wrote:1] I think that "against their will" is the wrong phrase. I think "without their prior consent" or "not being at all sure what they thought about it" are better ways to say it.

While I don't disagree with your assessment, keep in mind that Bill Clinton is trained as a lawyer, worked his whole life as a politician, and is media savvy. It would seem that he meant what he said.

Sivad wrote:You just read the eyes and the body language and you know when it's mutual.

Can't do that at Netflix, though. No staring at anyone for more than 5 seconds... :roll:
#14926197
One Degree wrote:Judging the past by current morality? Laws are not retroactive for a reason.


I don't really give a damn about the law, per se. Clinton has always been an asshole, and changing standards don't affect this timeless truth. Also, fuck Democrats.
#14927369
Potemkin wrote:Point taken. The sexual liberation of the late 60s and 70s was primarily a liberation for men only. The patriarchy was still very much in place, and the 'liberated' men of the 60s, 70s and 80s took full advantage. They still had all of the privileges of the patriarchy, but were suddenly freed from the responsibilities and restrictions of the patriarchy. The result was a tidal wave of sexual abuse against women and children. Once the tide went out from the 1990s onwards, it exposed all the garbage and wreckage left on the beach, which is currently still being cleaned up....

Tl;dr: Fuck the Baby Boomers. :|

Poyemkin,
As I said in another thread, why do you just hate Baby Boomers? The other 2 generation before us were in power when the big changes were made that changed the economy, started student loans and other such things. I personally fought that shit as hard as I could given I'm a nobody that nobody ever followed. I'm certainly not an Alpha male.

It is not right to say "Fuck You!" to a large group because some or even 50% of that group supported policies that hurt you. Only some of that group is guilty. Later generations can say the same about Millennials. That (Your?) generation has not done enough to change the course of history. I know this because we are still going down the course that leads to disaster. The Club of Rome was right that pollution will kill us. They got it wrong because they didn't see the mechanism being AGW but they were close enough.

On the subject of Climate Change or AGW which you might also hate Baby Boomers for --- I read the Club of Rome Report, "The Limits to Growth" in 1973 and dropped out of College because I wanted to do what I could to save the world from the disaster it predicted. I gave up my dream of owning a Lear Jet and became a janitor. I moved to a different state. I did not have kids. I did all I could to reach out to people over and over. But, I am a nobody, a nobody that nobody ever followed anywhere. But, I did all that I could do. And then you go and say, Fuck You!" to me.

I post here that MMT can be used to fund the fight against global warming and nobody jumps on the bandwagon to save the world.

I have posted here that AGW is a crisis. It may even be too late. We may have just months [not years] to start making a difference. Nobody jumps up and says, "Right, I'm with you on that."

What more do you think I should have done?
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