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#14933169
Updated 12:27 PM EDT July 16, 2018
Helsinki, Finland
US President Donald Trump, in a stunning rebuke of the US intelligence community, declined on Monday to endorse the US government's assessment that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election, saying he doesn't "see any reason why" Russia would be responsible.
Instead, Trump — standing alongside Russian President Vladimir Putin — touted Putin's vigorous denial and pivoted to complaining about the Democratic National Committee's server and missing emails from Hillary Clinton's personal account.
"I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today," Trump said during a joint news conference following his summit with Putin.
The US President also hailed Putin's offer for Russian law enforcement officials to interrogate the Russian agents indicted by the special counsel Robert Mueller as "incredible." Putin had said the offer would be reciprocal.
Trump's statements amounted to an unprecedented refusal by a US president to believe his own intelligence agencies over the word of a foreign adversary and came after Trump said he holds both the United States and Russia responsible for the breakdown in the relationship between the two countries and railed against the special counsel's Russia investigation.
"I hold both countries responsible. I think that the United States has been foolish. We've all been foolish," Trump said at the news conference in Helsinki, Finland.
"We should have, frankly, had this dialogue a long time ago. I think that we're all to blame. I think that the United States has now stepped forward along with Russia," Trump said, adding that he feels that the US and Russia have "both made some mistakes."
Trump and Putin blew past the 90 minutes they were scheduled to spend with only interpreters at their sides on Monday, just hours after the US President blamed US policy for the dismal state of relations between the two countries.
After their initial meeting, the two leaders brought in their top aides for an expanded bilateral meeting, the next step in their first official summit, and then concluded with a joint news conference.
Speaking to reporters, Trump again lambasted the special counsel's investigation stemming from Russian interference in the 2016 election as "a disaster for our country."
"I think that the probe is a disaster for our country. I think it's kept us (the US and Russia) apart. I think it's kept us separated," Trump said.
The US President proclaimed in front of Putin that "there was no collusion" during the 2016 campaign and said he "beat Hillary Clinton easily."
He added the Mueller probe has "had a negative impact on the relationship between the two nuclear powers."
While Trump dove into specifics on US missteps, he did not list any malignant Russian activities responsible for the low point in the US-Russia relationship.
Putin, meanwhile, denied any Russian election interference.
Gathered at the Finnish presidential palace, a historic venue where previous US presidents have also gathered with their Russian and Soviet counterparts to tackle the complex bilateral relationship, Trump made clear at the outset that he hopes the meeting can help transform the relationship into an "extraordinary" one.
"I think we have great opportunities together as two countries that, frankly, we have not been getting along very well for the last number of years," said Trump, who is hoping his personal touch can reverse the steep decline. "I think we will end up having an extraordinary relationship."
But the highly anticipated meetings that had been minutely planned began with a sluggish start after the Russian President arrived late, setting the summit about 45 minutes back.
Putin is known for arriving late to important events — considered a power play by some observers — but this time his late arrival offered a role reversal for the US President, who has recently walked in late to meetings at the G7 and NATO summits.
In 2009 and 2012, Putin showed up about 40 and 45 minutes late for his meetings with then-President Barack Obama. But he kept German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych waiting about four hours each in 2014 and 2012, respectively. Even the Pope waited more than an hour for Putin to show up at the Vatican in 2015.
The two men walked into the palace's Gothic Hall together, offering brief remarks and shaking hands for the cameras before the two men were left alone — save for a pair of interpreters — for the first meeting of the day.
Trump and Putin had set aside 90 minutes of solo time — just as Trump did with Kim Jong Un last month. But the two men spilled into overtime, inviting reporters for the start of their expanded bilateral meeting with top aides 2 hours and 11 minutes after their one-on-one meeting began. Trump was joined by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, national security adviser John Bolton, White House chief of staff John Kelly, Fiona Hill, the top Russia expert at the National Security Council, and interpreter Marina Gross.
The lengthy tête-à-tête made Trump's remarks ahead of the meeting all the more notable — and concerning to some.
US officials have stressed the path to improving US-Russia ties runs through a clear-eyed understanding of Russian aggression and the root causes of discord in the relationship, but Trump is signaling a different course. He is holding previous US administrations and the Justice Department's investigation stemming from Russian meddling in the 2016 election responsible.
"Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse thanks to many years of U.S. foolishness and stupidity and now, the Rigged Witch Hunt!" Trump tweeted Monday morning ahead of the summit.
Trump was eager to have time alone with Putin to better personally assess him and develop a personal relationship, according to a US official, but he has also expressed anger at leaks from his meetings with foreign leaders and told aides he wanted to ensure his sensitive discussions with Putin remained secret.
The official also said that Trump doesn't want aides — who may take a harder line on Russia — undercutting or interrupting him during his talks with Putin.
Just days earlier, Trump pointed to the "pure stupidity" and a "political problem" in the United States for making it "very hard to do something with Russia."
"Anything you do, it's always going to be, 'Oh, Russia, he loves Russia,' " Trump said during a joint news conference with his British counterpart.
Trump's Monday morning tweet and his words and actions in the last week have only amplified concerns about his approach to Russia among US allies and lawmakers of both parties in Washington. During his swing through Brussels and the United Kingdom, Trump has repeatedly criticized US allies, called the European Union a "foe" and criticized the Obama administration rather than Russia in the wake of the Justice Department's indictment of 12 Russian agents who allegedly worked to hack Democrats' emails and computer networks during the 2016 election.
Ahead of his meeting with Putin — who is alleged to be behind the assassination of journalists and political dissidents — the US President also lashed out again at the news media on Sunday by branding journalists "the enemy of the people."
Trump again — as he has repeatedly done — pointed the finger at his predecessor President Barack Obama and characterized the investigation stemming from Russian election interference as a "witch hunt."
"President Obama thought that Crooked Hillary was going to win the election, so when he was informed by the FBI about Russian Meddling, he said it couldn't happen, was no big deal, & did NOTHING about it," Trump tweeted. "When I won it became a big deal and the Rigged Witch Hunt headed by Strzok!"
Everything from Russian meddling in the 2016 election to the conflicts in Syria and Ukraine are expected to be on the agenda for their summit here in Helsinki, but Trump has signaled he is most eager to jumpstart talks to "substantially reduce" the two countries' nuclear weapons arsenals and generally improve US-Russia relations.
Trump is not, however, expected to offer to halt military exercises in the Baltics as part of his discussions with Putin, with a US official telling CNN's Jeff Zeleny "at least that's the plan going in."
The question of the Baltics exercises has hung over the summit, particularly after Trump abruptly decided last month to agree to stop joint US-South Korean military exercises during his meeting with Kim.
Trump had said he intended to once again ask Putin about Russian efforts to sway the results of the 2016 election, but signaled he would not press the issue.
"I know you'll ask, will we be talking about meddling. I will absolutely bring that up. I don't think you'll have any, 'Gee, I did it. I did it. You got me.' There won't be a Perry Mason here, I don't think, but you never know what happens, right? But I will absolutely, firmly ask the question," Trump said.
Trump has sought to cool expectations in the last days leading up to the summit, saying in an interview Saturday that he planned to arrive in Helsinki "with very low expectations."
"I think that getting along with Russia is a good thing, but it's possible we won't," Trump said.

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http://m.cnn.com/en/article/h_4e330b373 ... 1aea8c0203
#14933170
I am totally convinced that Russia has a prostitute video on him.

Trump is a buffoon, this guy really really needs to be thrown out.

I don't understand how his supposed red blooded patriotic base could support him in such bullshit?
#14933172
Albert wrote:Trump is not a puppet of Russia, it is left-wing never-Trumpist propaganda.


He certainly looks like a puppet to side with Russia rather than his own intelligence agency
#14933176
Allegedly Obama was a Kremlin stooge too. The USSR did have a massive program for subverting the US running for decades orchestrated by the KGB, surely subverting the presidency would be on that agenda (see Yuri Bezmenov's testimony). So it isn't completely unlikely that Trump is a reprise of that, subverting the presidency would be just as desirable for the formerly communist FSB as the actually communist KGB. The funny thing is all the communist subverted types in the US absolutely hate Trump so if he is an Russian agent he must the agent of a completely different gang of Russians to that of Obama and the rest, lol, maybe that is why they hate him so much.
Last edited by SolarCross on 16 Jul 2018 18:59, edited 1 time in total.
#14933177
SolarCross wrote:Allegedly Obama was a Kremlin stooge too. The USSR did have a massive program for subverting the US running for decades orchestrated by the KGB, surely subverting the presidency would be on that agenda (see Yuri Bezmenov's testimony). So it isn't completely unlikely that Trump is a reprise of that, subverting the presidency would be just as desirable for the formerly communist FSB as the actually communist KGB. The funny thing is all the communist subverted types in the US absolutely hate trump so if he is an russian agent he must the agent of a completely different gang of russians to that of Obama and the rest, lol.


I'm telling you, there is a prostitution sex tape with Trump in it. I'm now damn sure of it.
#14933180
Zagadka wrote:lol, like he would care about that. He's already literally on record sexually assaulting married women, and his Base just cheers.


Fair point. He might now care if a video like this existed. If it's not a sex tape, then it's the promise of a lot of business dealings in Russia. If he's not getting blackmailed, then he's somehow going to benefit.
User avatar
By maz
#14933182
Not a stooge; a partner. The two leaders of are fighting the liberal world order. Whether their version of global order will be necessarily good on all fronts remains to be seen.

The Russian meddling bullshit is the newer version of the Iraq had WMDs public myth.
#14933185
Zagadka wrote:lol, like he would care about that. He's already literally on record sexually assaulting married women, and his Base just cheers.

It depends on the what he was filmed doing. If it involved something really scandalous like children, corpses or animals then that would be pretty good leverage. But if it was just paid floozies then I don't think he would care and nor would anyone else. It wouldn't even put his marriage in danger, let alone the presidency, given that she is presumably a bought trophy wife and he almost certainly has a pre-nup.

They owned Obama from birth allegedly. A sex tape is pretty weak tea in comparison.
#14933187
Zagadka wrote:lol, like he would care about that. He's already literally on record sexually assaulting married women, and his Base just cheers.

I'd also cheer if I saw him having pissing sex with the best hookers in the world on CNN, which I guess still would be an embarrassment for Trump. :excited:

maz wrote:Not a stooge; a partner.

They may be partners, but Putin clearly dominates that partnership.
Last edited by Beren on 16 Jul 2018 19:28, edited 1 time in total.
#14933188
Why would Trump criticise Russia for meddling? If it had any influence, it won him a presidency. By accepting the possibility of meddling vocally, it weakens his legitimacy to the presidency. So I don't understand why people think this has anything to do with being a stooge. It is just Trump being Trump.

As for everything else, it is about time the West shows respect to Russia. Trump might have done many things wrong, but going to Finland and not claiming that his foreign policies are more legitimate than the Russians and stating the bleeding obvious that Russia/American relations need to improve is far better than barking out orders and demands that Russia will just ignore anyway. So why are people complaining?
#14933192
B0ycey wrote:So why are people complaining?

They're complaining because Trump is clearly not a match to Putin and even seems to be in his pocket while he gives more credit to Putin's words than his own intelligence and law enforcement agencies during a joint press conference with Putin the whole world's watching.
#14933197
Beren wrote:They're complaining because Trump is clearly not a match to Putin and even seems to be in his pocket while he gives more credit to Putin's words than his own intelligence and law enforcement agencies during a joint press conference with Putin the whole world's watching.


Until Mueller publishes his findings, everything is heresy.

But that doesn't explain the bleeding obvious anyway. Is Trump, a character that is indeed 'Fake News' and a prodigy of Stone, ever going to admit to meddling. It does after all weaken his claim to the presidency. If anything, I'm surprised that people are surprised that Trump would disregard such findings actually. After all, he fires people in the FBI who do their job and investigate Russian interference btw. This is just another play in the Trump playbook. Thinking otherwise is just wishful thinking. If there was a video of Trump pissing on prostitutes, it would have already aired by now.
#14933199
B0ycey wrote:If there was a video of Trump pissing on prostitutes, it would have already aired by now.

Why? Such a video is not what keeps Trump in Putin's pocket anyway, it's just a bonus.
#14933200
I'd also say that even if the Russian tried to weakly influence the election (internet ads is a pretty weak influence), they may have done so not so much to get Trump as to avoid Hillary, she is pretty much crazed after all. Trump is at least someone with whom they can do business.
#14933204
Beren wrote:Why? Such a video is not what keeps Trump in Putin's pocket anyway, it's just a bonus.


What keeps Trump in Putin's pocket then? In fact, what has Trump actually done to benefit Putin since his election prior to today?

Also we have had Stormy Daniels and the pussy grab video - and still no sign of this so-called video that could embarrass the US completely during this time. Don't get me wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it exists. There is no reason to keep it under wraps and thinking otherwise is wishful thinking.
#14933207
B0ycey wrote:What keeps Trump in Putin's pocket then? In fact, what has Trump actually done to benefit Putin since his election prior to today?

Also we have had Stormy Daniels and the pussy grab video - and still no sign of this so-called video that could embarrass the US completely during this time. Don't get me wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it exists. There is no reason to keep it under wraps and thinking otherwise is wishful thinking.

Do you think such a video is the only thing they have on Trump? The Trumps have been laundering money for the Russian mob for a while, for example. And what has he actually done to benefit Putin since his election prior to today? Well, I wonder if he could have deteriorated the North Atlantic relationship more than he's done so far. You've been here all along since he was elected, I wonder how you missed all that.
#14933212
Beren wrote:Well, I wonder if he could have deteriorated the North Atlantic relationship more than he's done so far. You've been here all along since he was elected, I wonder how you missed all that.


Well, you are correct, but I doubt this was due to leverage or to benefit Russia actually. It is solely due to a false perception of reality. He thinks his allies are ripping him off. So he calls them out as foes. Natually this is a farce and as a consequence benefits Russia. Nonetheless I suspect Russia main leverage is their gas supply to Europe actually. So in a funny way, a positive US/Russian relationship will help maintain a positive Atlantic relationship in the future.
Last edited by B0ycey on 16 Jul 2018 20:21, edited 1 time in total.
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