the calculations of the Democratic party - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14948037



It's that lesser evil bullshit that has destroyed the left. It's so easy for the corporate establishment to game that strategy, all it has to do is keep menacing the left with deranged reactionary republicans and the left will keep strategically voting for the corporate establishment "moderates". It's a retarded farce that's just taking us deeper and deeper into a neoliberal corporatocracy with every election cycle.

We've been hearing for twenty years now how we need to keep voting for corrupt establishment dems while working to build a grassroots movement and one day we'll have the numbers and momentum to take over the party. It's twenty years on and we're still not even close to accomplishing that. If we had another twenty years that strategy might work, but we got looming crises like climate change, economic collapse, and a rapidly growing fascistic right that are happening now. We don't have another twenty years to keep dicking around with lesser evilism.

The only thing that's going to get us where we need to be in time is relentlessly exposing the corruption, hypocrisy, and duplicity of the dem establishment and forcing rank and file liberals to support real progressives by demonstrating to them that we will not support their shit politics or their corrupt establishment and that if they don't want reactionary wingnuts running the country they're gonna have to bend the knee to the progressive left.
#14948103
@Sivad

It must be nice to not be a minority or female fearing his existence in a country that's literally wanting to put them in camps or shot. It must be nice never to know suffering and being an underclass living in hell, wondering if he's going to die by his said people or the cops or white supremacist.

It must be nice never considering that said minority feelings or well being when you believe a white genocidal wack job is better president than the one who was supported in the primary by more votes most of whom are minorities.

It must be nice to have no empathy and willlingness to accept compromised in sake of not letting the worse evil who has (made the economy worse soon, ruined race relations for a generation, destroyed our allies and might go to war with ME and NK(so saying Hilary is warhawk is mute now) and destroyed the environment.

Tell me was not letting the lessor evil(if you bother to read her policies she wasn't really that bad) worth genocide?

I going to repeat the words Bill Maher "Go F-ck Yourselves With a Locally Grown Organic Cucumber"

You can't complain about progressive values if your dead. I hope you never go to politics. I also hope you be hurt just as bad if not worse.
#14948295
There are lots of dead women and minorities because of the Democratic party's warmongering bullshit, or is it only Americans that you give a shit about @Libertarian353? Not a single Democrat voted against Trump's massive military budget expansion. The Democrats aren't doing shit to help anyone and your fear tactics are the only reason they remain as the only alternative to Republican vampirism.
#14948354
Libertarian353 wrote:@Sivad

It must be nice to not be a minority or female fearing his existence in a country that's literally wanting to put them in camps or shot. It must be nice never to know suffering and being an underclass living in hell, wondering if he's going to die by his said people or the cops or white supremacist.

It must be nice never considering that said minority feelings or well being when you believe a white genocidal wack job is better president than the one who was supported in the primary by more votes most of whom are minorities.

It must be nice to have no empathy and willlingness to accept compromised in sake of not letting the worse evil who has (made the economy worse soon, ruined race relations for a generation, destroyed our allies and might go to war with ME and NK(so saying Hilary is warhawk is mute now) and destroyed the environment.


I don't suffer from white guilt so you should save that shit for woke hipsters, suburban liberals, and clueless college kids. Working class assholes like me don't give a fuck about your stupid identitarian bullshit.
#14948356
Sivad wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7YmjWW9tx4

What a pathetic Little cuck Malcoln X was, crawling off to Saudi Arabia to worship the Arab, Semitic God. The Muslim Arabs, the people who were enslaving Blacks for over eight hundred years, before Christian Europe started transporting slaves, and carried on enslaving Blacks for a hundred years after Europeans with their superior morality abolished slavery.
#14948358
Red_Army wrote:The Democrats aren't doing shit to help anyone and your fear tactics are the only reason they remain as the only alternative to Republican vampirism.


If the left stops voting for pig corpocrat liberals the liberal establishment will collapse within a few electoral cycles and the left will own the democratic party. All we have to do is register democrat, vote progressive in the primaries and third party in the general if a liberal takes the primary. That's it, that's all we have to do. Liberals cannot win without progressive support and liberals cannot tolerate wingnut rule, they will fucking cave after a few cycles of punishment. Guaranteed.

We will lose ground to the right in the short term, but if we establish a real left populist party without the bullshit liberal wedge issues we will take over the country within a decade.
#14948377
Red_Army wrote:your fear tactics are the only reason they remain as the only alternative to Republican vampirism.

It's political culture and the electoral system mostly, what Sivad and skinster do only helps Republicans as long as you have that. Which is not surprising at all since they consider the Democrats the real enemy for some reason like Putin does, who's just a Russian Republican.
#14948388
It's political culture and the electoral system mostly, what Sivad and skinster do only helps Republicans as long as you have that. Which is not surprising at all since they consider the Democrats the real enemy for some reason like Putin does, who's just a Russian Republican.


About right.

All of the talk about middle of the road republicans and centrist democrats is kinda' meaningless. We have two parties. They are both conservative. The democrats slightly less than the republicans. They are both feeding at the same trough. Since Citizens United direct democracy in the form of a groundswell of popular support pushing either party one way or the other, is dead. There is only corporate money and it is all pushing the same agenda.

So democrat supporters have to realize that all they will ever get is some small things. Perhaps they can protect Social Security or get some reasonable health care. Maybe they can do some small initiatives on climate control and stop a power plant in the Grand Canyon but that is about it.

40 years from now, when employment of large numbers of Americans is essentially over, there will be an entirely new state of affairs. Those are the problems young Americans will have to sort out. We are moving to a time where people no longer will work for what they get. Sooner than you might imagine. Full employment now, in many industries anyway, relies on the fact that workers are cheaper than machines. Yesterday at Costco I was forced into a line to order my hot dog at a kiosk. This eliminates the need for one of the people who otherwise would be required to get my food for me. And this is coming.

The irony is that those who were paying attention have seen this coming for a long time. When I was a kid you did not pump your own gas. A well paid employee did that. And washed your windows at the same time. We had labor intensive small stores. Now one can live without ever entering a grocery store. Just order on line and swing by the parking lot. I publish a lot of stuff and have absolutely no need for a secretary which would have been a necessity less than 30 years ago. I got on the airplane last week without speaking to anyone but the TSA.


So I am fine with small gains in the years to come. The big issues will find us soon enough.
#14948389
Beren wrote:It's political culture and the electoral system mostly, what Sivad and skinster do only helps Republicans as long as you have that. Which is not surprising at all since they consider the Democrats the real enemy for some reason like Putin does, who's just a Russian Republican.

The US political two-party system has caused the construction of an awesome machine.

The Great Dichotomiser.

Feed any topic matter into the Great Dichotomiser, and you will get two roughly equal sides to fight over that particular topic matter, until they are both red in the face, and too tired to carry on; whilst unchanged in their original conviction.
#14948394
If someone wants radical political change, or any kind of radical change for that matter, then they should advocate radical methods obviously, in which virtually nobody seems interested as of now. There's no real chance of a new party emerging to prominence peacefully and democratically in the current system, no matter how wonderful ideas they have. There's a rising left wing within the Democratic Party and that's the most we can really have. I agree with @Drlee that small steps forward can be achieved, and @Crantag is also right that fake dichotomies should be eliminated from the system because they just hinder real political and social progress.
#14948396
America doesn't need a new Party. Just a new leader with big ideas.

#Bernie

It isn't unreasonable to think that a term or two of Trump will make the left even more resolute in change - especially as the rich/poor divide in America continues to expand.

When will the US poor wake up and understand they are getting fucked over big time by the "American Dream"?
#14948398
Sivad wrote:We will lose ground to the right in the short term, but if we establish a real left populist party without the bullshit liberal wedge issues we will take over the country within a decade.

You talk like a decade is nothing. With your tactics applied the Republican Party would become a dominant party without any real challenger on the federal level while the Democrats would be in opposition everywhere except some deep blue states and municipalities in the next decade. I wonder how that would be helpful unless you believe the worse the better, which works only if you want a Communist revolution or a Fascist takeover.
#14948465
@Beren the Democrats are the real enemy because they are the only people worth talking to. You can write off most the Republican vampires entirely and the ones with a glimmer of hope will come to the Democrats if they actually have real policy. Instead you have not a single Democrat voting against the largest military budget since the Iraq War. They are exactly as bad as the Republicans if you care about foreign policy.

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