[Negotiator]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 19721.html

“We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,” Mr Macron told France’s Europe 1 radio in an interview.

“When I see President Trump announcing that he’s quitting a major disarmament treaty which was formed after the 1980s Euro-missile crisis that hit Europe, who is the main victim? Europe and its security.”

The French president continued: “We will not protect the Europeans unless we decide to have a true European army.

“We need a Europe which defends itself better alone, without just depending on the United States, in a more sovereign manner.”

I would like to add that the USA also right now quite brutally forces Europe to cease trade with Iran, which is an outrageous attack on european interests, is behind the sanctions against Russia that serves no purpose for european politics at all, but is motivated by the USA trying to sell Europe their expensive gas retrieved with fracking instead of the cheap russian gas, and so on and so forth.

The USA is what we call "a friend that you dont need enemies anymore" in german.



https://www.politico.eu/article/truce-i ... stice-day/

President Macron of France has just suggested that Europe build its own military in order to protect itself from the U.S., China and Russia. Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 9, 2018

The real driving motive here is obviously to sell more american weapons to european nations, which Trump has admitted on other occasions. Sadly weapons is one of the last remaining industrial areas in which the USA is indeed world leading.



Putin thinks a european army is a good idea:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ww1- ... NG0KY?il=0

“Europe is a powerful economic entity, a powerful economic union and it is quite natural that it wants to be independent, self-sufficient and sovereign in matters of defense and security,” Putin told RT television.

[Rugoz]

The notion that Europe needs a military to protect itself from the US is very silly though.

[Beren]

Europe rather needs a great "enlightening" campaign in the US to prevent any POTUS from calling it a foe again. There also seems to be a lack of effective lobbying on behalf of Europe in Washington D.C., we seem to lag behind others a lot.

[One Degree]

Yes ⬆️ This is just more demonizing Trump to inflate his own self importance. Seems to be the game to play today to get your name in the international press. Macron seems to be in self destruct mode.

[One Degree]

Europe rather needs a great "enlightening" campaign in the US to prevent any POTUS from calling it a foe again. There also seems to be a lack of effective lobbying on behalf of Europe in Washington D.C., we seem to lag behind others a lot.

Don’t you think Europe’s real problem is the rest of the world knows they see themselves as the ‘moral authority’ of the world? I don’t think Europeans heads need swelled anymore by further ‘enlightenment’.
This is the only reason they are considered a foe.

[Beren]

Don’t you think Europe’s real problem is the rest of the world knows they see themselves as the ‘moral authority’ of the world?

No, I think Europe has several more serious problems than her image.

This is the only reason they are considered a foe.

I thought it had something to do with trade issues.

[One Degree]

No, I think Europe has several more serious problems than her image.


I thought it had something to do with trade issues.

Really, isn’t the EU currently fighting morality differences with many of it’s members? It is actually the basis of most of their problems including trade such as with Iran for instance. It always comes back to the EU demanding ‘moral conformity’. Liberalism is a very intolerant religion.

[Beren]

How is it about morality or religion? It's about a lack of cohesion due to some members refusing to abide by the rules they accepted once.

[B0ycey]

The Americans always wanted Europe to look after themselves. Seems to reason if Europe wants to become the next superstate it should also create an Army that fights for their interests as well. But is it really news to consider America as a potential enemy of the EU when Trump has called the EU a foe first?

[One Degree]

How is it about morality or religion? It's about a lack of cohesion due to some members refusing to abide by the rules they accepted once.

True, but so is Trumpism a refusal to abide by a previous unofficial agreement to liberalism. It is saying liberalism is not delivering what we expected. So you can argue populists are violating the rules, but it is still a rejection of the morality demands at the basis of those rules that is being rejected.
Isn’t this why people get frustrated with me because I often won’t argue based upon the rules of liberal morality?

[Beren]

Isn’t this why people get frustrated with me because I often won’t argue based upon the rules of liberal morality?

I don't know about others but I don't get frustrated with you, I just get tired of you.

[One Degree]

I don't know about others but I don't get frustrated with you, I just get tired of you.

That is understandable and a very reasonable thing to do. I get tired of me sometimes too. Patience, I am a compulsive and will soon find another compulsion.

[anasawad]

Europeans at the current moment are vassal states of the US, nothing more nothing less. Trying to rebel against your masters means you need to be ready to fight for it.

I don't expect a military conflict, however a covert one is on the table if the split began fully taking place.

[Beren]

That is understandable and a very reasonable thing to do. I get tired of me sometimes too.

Well, it must be tiresome to keep seeing the world from a perspective Trump looks better and better from.

[One Degree]

Well, it must be tiresome to keep seeing the world from a perspective Trump looks better and better from.

My views are not as one sided as they appear. I am very aware Trump and the RNC seem to have forgotten about state’s rights. Not a single Republican questionnaire ever mentions it. It is one Trump promise that so far seems to have been forgotten. It is the most important one to me.

[Saeko]

Bomb them! Bomb them now! SEND THEM ALL TO HELL!

/MURRICA

[Albert]

[Victoribus Spolia]

The french are about as scary to the United States with tough talk as a gnat in my coffee.

[Oxymandias]

@Victoribus Spolia

You're losing Europe's favor. This isn't big from a trade stand point, the US can rely on itself if it wants to. It is bad from a foreign policy perspective. A relatively hostile Europe means that American interests in the Old World will be bound to be hampered on. If the US gets Europe to angry they may become completely hostile which may destroy American influence in the Old World and isolate America.

[annatar1914]

The french are about as scary to the United States with tough talk as a gnat in my coffee.

@Victoribus Spolia

There a quick couple points I wish to make by way of reply, VS. The first is that the French have a long history of greatness which in reality did not diminish with the debacles of the 20th century, but clearly have in the post-1945 generation. They don't mind German domination, even if it's primarily economic, now. France could easily remember herself again someday.

The second point I wish to make, also addressed to@Oxymandias, is that perhaps it would be best if the United States was more ''isolated'', in the interests of her own people. Trading partners with all and neither friends nor enemies with any.