[AFAIK]

@SSDR
Social democrats (liberals if you butcher the English language) support publically funded education, publically funded healthcare, love marriages and markets all of which contribute to people being less dependent on their families then at any point in human history.

[SSDR]

@AFAIK, Yes that is closer to socialism, but that is still not socialism because social democrats support currency, capitalist classes, social hierarchy, and some form of the family institution.

In social democracy, everything is determined by currency, which is the biggest enemy of socialism.

[Sivad]

@Sivad sure, but the working class is international. You know as well as I do that NAFTA and neoliberal American policies created the situation in Latin America that precipitated large scale immigration. The Mexican and Central American working class are not the enemy.

They're not the enemy but they are a problem. If importing tens of millions of Latin American economic refugees into the US was good for democracy the ruling class wouldn't be doing it. The fact is these people are poorly educated and they come from cultures where enormous wealth gaps, extreme corruption, and clientelist politics are the norm. The wingnuts are worried about the impacts on their white christian culture, I'm worried about the negative impact on democracy and rule of law.

The US is responsible for a lot of the problems in these countries but the people of these countries are not just helpless victims, the reason the US has been so successful at exploiting these countries is because the people there are politically and economically and socially backwards. These people will bring their incompetence and dysfunction with them, they couldn't hold down their own countries and I have no confidence they'll do any better here. All they're gonna do here is further fuck up the works.

And the ruling class knows this and that's one of the main reasons why they're more than happy to let these people flood in.

You also know that this thread is bullshit and the rightwing narrative that Islam is some jihad ideology that threatens to destroy Western Civilization is nonsense. All rightwing ideologies, including fundamentalist Islam threaten democracy, but there is no reason to make bedfellows with evangelicals, opus-day, and fascists to fight the same shit just because it comes with brown people.

Opposing third world immigration doesn't put you in league with the right, but I don't even oppose mass immigration. My stance has always been that while mass immigration is bad for the country the solution isn't to wall the country off to immigrants but to stop doing all the shit that drives it. I'm totally opposed to locking people out. If the wingnuts want to stop mass immigration then they should be working to stop the wars and the trade policies that are the cause of it.

[Pants-of-dog]

At this point, I feel I should point out that if Latinos are guilty of not keeping their governments from ruining their countries, then US citizens are guilty of not keeping their governments from ruining their country and the rest of the world.

[Sivad]

Whatever problems the US may have, mass immigration isn't gonna help the situation.

[Pants-of-dog]

Whatever problems the US may have, mass immigration isn't gonna help the situation.

I tend not to worry about imaginary problems.

But I think the US would actually benefit from a drastic increase in Latinos. The food would be better. And the music. And the politics.

[Sivad]

I tend not to worry about imaginary problems.

You tend not to worry about real problems, the imaginary problems you hype the shit out of.

[Pants-of-dog]

You tend not to worry about real problems, the imaginary problems you hype the shit out of.

Mass immigration, which people cannot even define let alone prove, is an imaginary problem.

Even if it were occurring, it would probably bring about more benefits than problems. For example, mass immigration of the i-Kiribati would clarify the reality of certain problems.

[Ter]

But I think the US would actually benefit from a drastic increase in Latinos. The food would be better. And the music. And the politics.

I propose a compromise : we let only the women in. I heard they are good in bed and look after their men quite well. And indeed, they can cook tasty meals.
Agreed?

[skinster]

Politicians are doing this quite often, as well as random liberal people who are curious about the religion, or the flyers you can find in Europe encouraging European women to wear the hijab in solidarity etc.

Citations needed.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Ter

At least your fantasies make sense.

[The trigger]