Greta’s very corporate children’s crusade - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15034982
Atlantis wrote:I'm too old to have to fear any consequences, but most of you will get a first hand experience of hell.


Nah, only 3rd world nations, developing nations, and the poorest within developed nations will suffer.

Don't get me wrong, I think we should do something to stem this, but it will not be an apocalypse. Those with money, will do just fine. :hmm: That said, it could spur revolutions around the globe.
#15034994
Pants-of-dog wrote:If you think immigration is a problem now....


This is interesting, because there is a strong correlation between between thinking climate change is a hoax, and hating immigration (and/or being outright racist). Basically, conservatives should be all over stopping climate change. This would help stem the immigration they seem to hate.
#15035013
Pants-of-dog wrote:Northern countries like Russia and Canada can actually benefit if they play their cards right.


I think that those who believe that they will benefit from climate change may be in for a rude awakening. All we know is that the climate will change; we don't know exactly how. In most places, a 1 or 2 degree increase isn't exactly catastrophic, but the increase of extreme weather events - we are already seeing now - is going to have impacts even in colder climates.

For example, Russia had harvest failures and huge wildfires due to increased drought. The US will get battered by increasingly violent hurricanes. The destruction of the Amazon rain forest will increase drought and harvest failures in the US. The weakening of the Gulf Stream will produce changes we don't yet fully understand.

The social and political consequences will be felt even in the prosperous West. For how long will democracy and the rule of law resist the autocratic rule preferred by the populist right? At what point do we have to abandon human rights and institute a totalitarian digital police state in order to deprive the poor of their share of resources?

Rancid wrote:This is interesting, because there is a strong correlation between between thinking climate change is a hoax, and hating immigration (and/or being outright racist). Basically, conservatives should be all over stopping climate change. This would help stem the immigration they seem to hate.

If you think immigration is a problem now....


The irony is that the far-right climate change deniers may be the only true believers in climate change since they want to prepare for the event with walls and increased military spending against the future tsunami of climate refugees.
#15035028
Rancid wrote:Generally speaking, I agree that we should be careful when people use children to push agendas.


Yes, I was a bit conflicted about Mini AOC because she was a child who was used for political purposes.

I came to the conclusion that Mini AOC was used primarily to mock Rep. Ocasio Cortez and not for any evil or nefarious purposes, and decided to leave her off my list of child crusaders in the previous post.

Rancid wrote:However, that fact alone does not invalidate the entire movement/position


I don't disagree with the movement's position that governments and corporations need to be held accountable for their role in the pollution of the environment. I do however, disagree with the overall premise of man made climate change and global warming.

I especially disagree with their solutions to "solve" climate change. Also, making sure the earth doesn't get warmer doesn't seem to have anything to do with making sure that we have clean food, water and air for the most part. Obviously, we've gone over all of this over and over throughout the years.

Also, what evidence do you have that proves climate change is driving immigration. It sounds similar to the globalist propaganda that climate change was one of the causes of the Syrian war.
#15035058
Presvias wrote:Did anyone question the source and its claims?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mediabiasf ... ine/%3famp

"Extreme right".

It's true that banks, big finance want to capitalise on green bonds, and that there's a lot of bluster and lies coming from the big corporates.

But the pretty rough impugnation and withering attacks on what she's doing, when she's just a nice, bright 16 year old who's trying to make a difference in her own - perhaps not very significant - way, is just wrong IMHO.

It rather discredits your media check site that they call this "extreme", but the source makes no secret of its conservative leanings. At any rate, what's your contention with respect to the claims in the article and where does it "witheringly attack" what she's doing? The whole point of the article is that she's just a carefully chosen face which is clearly true and your demonstrated protective instincts above are a major reason for this choice.

******************************

Our new messiah. Don't you dare criticise her.

Image
Pretty much all religious characteristics seem to be place with this movement, with the exception perhaps of a designated holy text.
#15035069
Atlantis wrote:I think that those who believe that they will benefit from climate change may be in for a rude awakening. All we know is that the climate will change; we don't know exactly how. In most places, a 1 or 2 degree increase isn't exactly catastrophic, but the increase of extreme weather events - we are already seeing now - is going to have impacts even in colder climates.

For example, Russia had harvest failures and huge wildfires due to increased drought. The US will get battered by increasingly violent hurricanes. The destruction of the Amazon rain forest will increase drought and harvest failures in the US. The weakening of the Gulf Stream will produce changes we don't yet fully understand.

The social and political consequences will be felt even in the prosperous West. For how long will democracy and the rule of law resist the autocratic rule preferred by the populist right? At what point do we have to abandon human rights and institute a totalitarian digital police state in order to deprive the poor of their share of resources?



The irony is that the far-right climate change deniers may be the only true believers in climate change since they want to prepare for the event with walls and increased military spending against the future tsunami of climate refugees.



1 or 2 percent is an average increase. That is very significant from a climate science perspective. We are cruising for 3 to 4 percent, which is an extraordinarily big change in the timespan involved looking at geological records. It takes some time for all the effects to filter through the system. Like a thousand years or so. It will be obvious by the end of this century as people will be waist deep in water in most coastal cities.

However, the current global climate regime is ultimately dominated by Antartica sitting on the South Pole and open ocean circulation around it keeping temperatures down. The CO2 we have released will gradually sink into the earth through various processes. I would expect that in a meet ten thousands years the global climate would have settled down into a regime not too different from the pre industrial climate.

As to what shape the biosphere will be in? Probably a lot less diverse than present, but it will recover to pre industrial levels of diversity in less than ten million years.

So there is no problem really. Not from an earth centred view, anyway. As to humans?


Kaiserschmarrn wrote:
Our new messiah. Don't you dare criticise her.

Image
Pretty much all religious characteristics seem to be place with this movement, with the exception perhaps of a designated holy text.



These sort of fruit loops will cotton on to any cause that feeds their need for self importance. It would be better that they didn’t jump on environmental issues, from a policy point of view.

Perhaps the possible existence of UFOs needs to be pushed more strongly so the wackos can form their cults around that cause and thus keep them out of anything important?
#15035076
Well, aside from standpoint's staunchly anti-Islamic stance, they're now backed by a Break-It party nutter.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com ... ac2431f453

And the charity which runs it, is backed by the big tobacco lobby

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Affairs_Unit

Funding Edit
Documents released as part of the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement showed that the Unit accepted funding from British American Tobacco in the 1980s.[6]

I've never heard of them before; so I was going on a respected site's insight into their views. And I am inclined to believe mediabiasfactcheck, as it's always proven trustworthy in rooting out both left, and right wing biases.
#15035077
foxdemon wrote:1 or 2 percent is an average increase. That is very significant from a climate science perspective. We are cruising for 3 to 4 percent, which is an extraordinarily big change in the timespan involved looking at geological records. It takes some time for all the effects to filter through the system. Like a thousand years or so. It will be obvious by the end of this century as people will be waist deep in water in most coastal cities.

However, the current global climate regime is ultimately dominated by Antartica sitting on the South Pole and open ocean circulation around it keeping temperatures down. The CO2 we have released will gradually sink into the earth through various processes. I would expect that in a meet ten thousands years the global climate would have settled down into a regime not too different from the pre industrial climate.

As to what shape the biosphere will be in? Probably a lot less diverse than present, but it will recover to pre industrial levels of diversity in less than ten million years.

So there is no problem really. Not from an earth centred view, anyway. As to humans?





These sort of fruit loops will cotton on to any cause that feeds their need for self importance. It would be better that they didn’t jump on environmental issues, from a policy point of view.

Perhaps the possible existence of UFOs needs to be pushed more strongly so the wackos can form their cults around that cause and thus keep them out of anything important?


Pure unadulterated ignorance from start to end.

There are legitimate criticisms to be made of the climate movement, and you didn't pick up on one such criticism.
#15035083
Presvias wrote:Well, aside from standpoint's staunchly anti-Islamic stance, they're now backed by a Break-It party nutter.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com ... ac2431f453

And the charity which runs it, is backed by the big tobacco lobby

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Affairs_Unit

Funding Edit
Documents released as part of the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement showed that the Unit accepted funding from British American Tobacco in the 1980s.[6]

OK, and is there actually anything wrong with the claims in the article and where does it attack what she's doing?

Presvias wrote:I've never heard of them before; so I was going on a respected site's insight into their views. And I am inclined to believe mediabiasfactcheck, as it's always proven trustworthy in rooting out both left, and right wing biases.

They have The Guardian rated as a media source that has a slight to moderate liberal bias which is all I need to know about their purported neutrality.

********************************

foxdemon wrote:These sort of fruit loops will cotton on to any cause that feeds their need for self importance. It would be better that they didn’t jump on environmental issues, from a policy point of view.

Perhaps the possible existence of UFOs needs to be pushed more strongly so the wackos can form their cults around that cause and thus keep them out of anything important?

It's essentially a doomsday cult backed by mainstream media, politicians and of course the already mentioned corporations. It seems that it's OK now to put the fear of god into teenagers and children and tell them that they won't survive for much longer.

Madness. :lol:
#15035098
MistyTiger wrote:I like that children are in the forefront of this movement. They should care about their world.

The adults and organisations that are actually behind it certainly count on your sentiment. That's why they were looking for young people.

MistyTiger wrote:Anything in this world can be tied to corporate interests. Money makes the world go round, as they say. Can change occur without money switching hands?

This is not only about corporate interests, but they are certainly trying to massively accelerate the transition to renewable energy, including strong opposition to nuclear energy, without regard to costs/benefits or whether the proposed pace is actually necessary. Together with the environmental fundamentalists, they are using these kids to try and blackmail governments into turning on the spending taps.
#15035115
Pants-of-dog wrote:If merely having corporations involved in something is enough to make it morally questionable and a hoax, what does this say about capitalism?


Don't know what this says about capitalism because money and capital are merely tools. Perhaps you are pro-globalist corporate agendas?
#15035118
maz wrote:Don't know what this says about capitalism because money and capital are merely tools. Perhaps you are pro-globalist corporate agendas?


If money and capital are merely tools, then why are you guys arguing that the use of these tools makes global warming a hoax?
#15035122
Pants-of-dog wrote:If money and capital are merely tools, then why are you guys arguing that the use of these tools makes global warming a hoax?


Purely speculative and subjective. It is my opinion that their solutions of lowering global temperate averages do not address my concerns for clean water, food and air.

Can you point to any global warming/climate change solution that specifically address the problem of contaminated food, water and/or air?
#15035124
"They have The Guardian rated as a media source that has a slight to moderate liberal bias which is all I need to know about their purported neutrality."

That says more about your own bias than anything else.

As for the claims in the article, big tobacco and Islamophobes criticising a 16 year old girl trying to raise a bit of awareness? Need I say more.

Seems like the corporate fear of god manifesting as greed, lust and tyranny is a bigger problem for so-called adults.
#15035125
maz wrote:Purely speculative and subjective. It is my opinion that their solutions of lowering global temperate averages do not address my concerns for clean water, food and air.

Can you point to any global warming/climate change solution that specifically address the problem of contaminated food, water and/or air?


Whilst I agree with the other guy's posts, you are completely correct as well.

I'd say that a lot of environmental/anti pollution causes overlap with global warming causes; and we should try to fix both.

And you're right that super neoliberal capitalism is a big impediment to this. They try to fudge things and make it look like they're doing something when they really aren't.
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