- 21 Sep 2019 17:45
#15035240
@Pants-of-dog
The oppressive elements are growing at a notable rate.
And don't worry, I'm not a "victim" nor any of these policies affect me directly.
My problem is that these totalitarian voices coming out of the progressive movement in your countries are being used to silence and attack the liberal movement and stop liberal reforms in my home country.
You want to address prejudice, great, so do I and many others, and we all want social reforms; Then, the stories about arrests for hate speech starts popping up where the person in question just said some mean thing on the internet.
Now considering that we're both considered liberals, and in many occasions organizers from western countries like Canada, the US, UK, and France come to Lebanon to help around, we're considered one movement, so when you start arresting people for saying offensive things, what other movements here hear is whoever holds power gets to arrest their opposition and, specifically, other religious groups since Lebanon is divided on religious, not racial lines.
In short, when some in your country, an already established liberal country, break the principles and values of liberalism, you discredit liberal movements trying to spread liberal values in their perspective countries all around the world.
@Reichstraten
I do too, because he is.
And although that's offensive, it should still be under the banner free speech, and arresting someone for saying something like this would be a dangerous thing to do.
The minute you start arresting people for words, i.e. thought crimes, you effectively destroyed your own movement and even self because the minute your rivals take power you be assured they'll criminalize all your views and round you up for it.
And it does seem that's starting to happen around and at an increasing rate.
Neither should be fined. Both are acceptable.
If you don't like something, simply don't read it or listen to it.
Freedom of speech means that even someone you despise and despise everything they hold and believe has the right to express them as loud as they want without any restrictions.
And the minute you start taking that freedom away, everyone loses it.
Not really, no. Social Democracies were established on liberal principles and values, the recent developments are a break away from these principles.
On the very top, it's neither left nor right, it's pragmatic; But on everything else, it's mostly left-wing, or at least overkilling it with the pandering to the far left.
If the corporate world was far-right, the way these corporations operate internally would be the exact opposite of what we see today.
Corporations being predatory doesn't mean they're right-wing, they're private corporations in a capitalist market, they'll always be predatory as a default, even if you established the most liberal green peaceful etc corporation, if it's not predatory in a capitalist market it'll die out and shut down.
What you need to look at is how these corporations operate internally.
There are right-wing corporations of course, like Amazon is pretty shit and one of the more crushing ones to work in even in high levels, but the larger portion are pandering and adopting to the far-left.
To give direct examples, compare Amazon to HSBC or Goldman Sachs or Google internally. You'll see the difference and what I mean.
Noting that I make a distinction between center-left and far left, primarily because I am center-left. But anyways.
There was no censorship or attempt to keep anyone from reading these books. If they are getting rid of Sophocles, then rest assured, they still have copies of his works in the library. People can still access then and read them.
The left is not being oppressive. You guys are just misunderstanding the situation and fooling yourselves into believing that you are victims.
The oppressive elements are growing at a notable rate.
And don't worry, I'm not a "victim" nor any of these policies affect me directly.
My problem is that these totalitarian voices coming out of the progressive movement in your countries are being used to silence and attack the liberal movement and stop liberal reforms in my home country.
You want to address prejudice, great, so do I and many others, and we all want social reforms; Then, the stories about arrests for hate speech starts popping up where the person in question just said some mean thing on the internet.
Now considering that we're both considered liberals, and in many occasions organizers from western countries like Canada, the US, UK, and France come to Lebanon to help around, we're considered one movement, so when you start arresting people for saying offensive things, what other movements here hear is whoever holds power gets to arrest their opposition and, specifically, other religious groups since Lebanon is divided on religious, not racial lines.
In short, when some in your country, an already established liberal country, break the principles and values of liberalism, you discredit liberal movements trying to spread liberal values in their perspective countries all around the world.
@Reichstraten
Right wingers are calling Mohammed a pedophile all the time without getting sued.
I do too, because he is.
And although that's offensive, it should still be under the banner free speech, and arresting someone for saying something like this would be a dangerous thing to do.
The minute you start arresting people for words, i.e. thought crimes, you effectively destroyed your own movement and even self because the minute your rivals take power you be assured they'll criminalize all your views and round you up for it.
And it does seem that's starting to happen around and at an increasing rate.
Intelligent criticism, based on facts and argumentation, is generally permitted.
If you're just insulting for the sake of insulting, why shouldn't that be fined?
Neither should be fined. Both are acceptable.
If you don't like something, simply don't read it or listen to it.
Freedom of speech means that even someone you despise and despise everything they hold and believe has the right to express them as loud as they want without any restrictions.
And the minute you start taking that freedom away, everyone loses it.
About left-wing social policy, that's a result of living in a social democracy.
Not really, no. Social Democracies were established on liberal principles and values, the recent developments are a break away from these principles.
How is the corporate world left? I don't see that honestly.
On the very top, it's neither left nor right, it's pragmatic; But on everything else, it's mostly left-wing, or at least overkilling it with the pandering to the far left.
If the corporate world was far-right, the way these corporations operate internally would be the exact opposite of what we see today.
Corporations being predatory doesn't mean they're right-wing, they're private corporations in a capitalist market, they'll always be predatory as a default, even if you established the most liberal green peaceful etc corporation, if it's not predatory in a capitalist market it'll die out and shut down.
What you need to look at is how these corporations operate internally.
There are right-wing corporations of course, like Amazon is pretty shit and one of the more crushing ones to work in even in high levels, but the larger portion are pandering and adopting to the far-left.
To give direct examples, compare Amazon to HSBC or Goldman Sachs or Google internally. You'll see the difference and what I mean.
Noting that I make a distinction between center-left and far left, primarily because I am center-left. But anyways.
Vive la révolution