The Popular Vote... - Page 17 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Finfinder
#15046521
Rancid wrote:I do remember it. The media didn't talk about it, but was certainly happening in forums and what not.

That said, is the media even talking about that kind of thing with Trump? Sure there's this thread, but on a mass media level, is this really an idea (changing the electoral system) that people are pushing?

Because democrats are sore losers.

Ultimately, I'm trying to explore this idea at a philosophical level. Hence my questions were along the lines of "how different would things be if electoral votes were split, or if we had a popular vote". I'm thinking it would destroy the two party system. Something both Ds and Rs wouldn't like. Notice you don't see any democrats really calling for a change to the electoral system (at least I haven't seen any).




Thanks for the answer . If anything maybe we could go with something like a 6 year term alternating the Democrats and the Republicans. Haven't though too much about it but these elections are ripping us apart as a country. I don't know how to break the two party system maybe terms limits in congress would help?

Maybe you should check a little closer

Senate Democrats introduce a constitutional amendment to abolish the Electoral College
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/3/18292513/a ... eth-warren
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By Rancid
#15046524
Finfinder wrote:If anything maybe we could go with something like a 6 year term alternating the Democrats and the Republicans.

I don't think I'd like that. Not sure.

It would likely narrow the scope of what happens with policy, etc. etc. Maybe that's good? Dunno.

Finfinder wrote:terms limits in congress would help?


This is something the feels like a good idea, but I'm not sure that would change anything. Could make things worse? If you are a senator on your way out, maybe you will be more willing to take bribes and do stupid shit. :lol:
#15046531
Rancid wrote:I don't think I'd like that. Not sure.

It would likely narrow the scope of what happens with policy, etc. etc. Maybe that's good? Dunno.



This is something the feels like a good idea, but I'm not sure that would change anything. Could make things worse? If you are a senator on your way out, maybe you will be more willing to take bribes and do stupid shit. :lol:


I think incoming people to congress should be subject to a financial review and have to explain any gains to their net worth during time served and subject to taxes. This should happen throughout our country.. state, local, and federal.

How much do you think someone like AOC will be worth when she's done was complaining not to along ago about not affording an apartment? Even Bernie is a multi millionaire.
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By Rancid
#15046536
Finfinder wrote:I think incoming people to congress should be subject to a financial review and have to explain any gains to their net worth during time served and subject to taxes. This should happen throughout our country.. state, local, and federal.

Yea, I agree with this.

Finfinder wrote:How much do you think someone like AOC will be worth when she's done was complaining not to along ago about not affording an apartment? Even Bernie is a multi millionaire.


oh yea, she will come out the other side with some good coin. She will not be able to call herself poor by any stretch. :lol:

politics is good business.
By late
#15046559
Finfinder wrote:
The wheat belt isn't moving into Canada

the farmers are choosing to plant more profitable commodities like corn and soybeans.

So you support forcing companies to go out of business with severe taxing so smaller companies can exist with higher prices to consumers.


Democrats can't win at anything unless they cheat, lie, or change the rules.




Canada is already growing wheat..

Soybeans, eh? Bet those guys are happy campers.

Industrial farming is going to change. Not all of it, but there are a LOT of problems, not least of which is the fact most farmers are close to retirement.

You project more than a mall cineplex. The re-authorisation fo the Voting Rights Act required documentation. Several hundred pages documenting attempts to cheat voters. And that's just one thing.
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By Finfinder
#15046566
late wrote:Canada is already growing wheat..

Soybeans, eh? Bet those guys are happy campers.

Industrial farming is going to change. Not all of it, but there are a LOT of problems, not least of which is the fact most farmers are close to retirement.

You project more than a mall cineplex.


I'm hardly projecting and you demonstrate you don't even have rudimentary knowledge of commodities and agriculture. . You make big broad brush statements and offer no defense of your positions. You are the antithesis of a drive bye.

First ... what is your definition of industrial farming ? How is it going to change?

Soybeans?? Those crop farmer have made a killin lately. Here is something you most certainly haven't thought of. Crop farmers don't grow beans because of China, most soybeans are processed and those byproducts are sold for many things the bulk of which is Soybean meal that domestic farmers consume. So boo whoo for the crop farmer. You ever thought that the people who have to buy the soybeans benefit from a lower price. You ever thought that you in fact benefit from lower commodity prices. Lower input cost in producing pork, beef, dairy, and poultry makes your hotdogs and chicken nugget prices cheaper.

Farmers are close to retirement most farms are cooperation so what does that have to do with anything?
User avatar
By Drlee
#15046569
I think incoming people to congress should be subject to a financial review and have to explain any gains to their net worth during time served and subject to taxes. This should happen throughout our country.. state, local, and federal.

How much do you think someone like AOC will be worth when she's done was complaining not to along ago about not affording an apartment? Even Bernie is a multi millionaire.


Isn't it interesting when so-called conservatives abandon their free market rhetoric so quickly when they wish to smear someone?

I mean the elephant in the corner of the room is President Trump who, though probably not worth near what he says he is worth, and after promising that he will self fund his campaign with no intention of doing it, is ignored while whining about how a bartender from the Bronx might make a buck or two off of a book deal.

Want to take the money out of politics? I'll play. I will refute any plan that anyone forwards except one. Government funding of ALL elections.
User avatar
By Finfinder
#15046571
Drlee wrote:Isn't it interesting when so-called conservatives abandon their free market rhetoric so quickly when they wish to smear someone?

I mean the elephant in the corner of the room is President Trump who, though probably not worth near what he says he is worth, and after promising that he will self fund his campaign with no intention of doing it, is ignored while whining about how a bartender from the Bronx might make a buck or two off of a book deal.

Want to take the money out of politics? I'll play. I will refute any plan that anyone forwards except one. Government funding of ALL elections.


Good thing I'm registered as an independant..... thought you already came out of the closet Drlee we all knew anyway though.
#15046572
For a while in Canada, we had a system where each party was allocated a certain a ount of funds for the next campaign based on their portion of the popular vote.

So, even if parties did not get seats in the House because of their votes, they did get support out of it that would help them next time.
By late
#15046574
Finfinder wrote:


Soybeans?? Those crop farmer have made a killin lately.


Farmers are close to retirement most farms are cooperation so what does that have to do with anything?



Trumps trade war... you do remember that, don't you?? That damage has already happened. Do you ever read real news???

Cooperation?? What the??

There are several problems with farming, one is that the farmers kids aren't farming. Soil depletion, pollution, climate change, labor shortages, that's just off the top of my head. Definitely not the complete list.

You can whine all you want, but the era of carbon is going to end. Big corporate farms depend entirely on cheap oil. That will bring back smaller farms. Food imports have been increasing for a long time, they will continue to increase. But the day will come when we don't want a future where the vast majority of our food comes from outside the country.
Last edited by late on 04 Nov 2019 21:18, edited 2 times in total.
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By Finfinder
#15046579
Rancid wrote:Last I recall, soy bean exports were down like 20%


Yea so the beans just sold to different markets doesn't mean the futures are down the futures are actually still in an upward trend. It's a world economy. We have been losing market share in Soybeans to South America for decades. So what the farmers plant something different.

@late Are you talking about family farms or industrial farms (which you never answered my question of definition) either way they are all incorporated so people retiring is irrelevant. We are not going to starve anytime soon.
By late
#15046584
Finfinder wrote:
either way they are all incorporated so people retiring is irrelevant. We are not going to starve anytime soon.



Never said anyone was going to starve.

"Nearly a third of farm and ranch operators in the United States are over age 65. Traditionally, land and property have been passed down through the family. But trade wars, low prices, and an unpredictable climate have left the next generation wary of a future in agriculture...

Between 1992 and 2012, almost 31 million acres of farm and ranch land have been taken out of production..

But many rural tax and estate planning specialists also are retiring.."

It's a highly complex, many faceted problem. But the bottom line is simple enough, big changes are coming, and we aren't even talking about them.




https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2019/0401 ... place-them
User avatar
By Finfinder
#15046589
late wrote:Never said anyone was going to starve.

"Nearly a third of farm and ranch operators in the United States are over age 65. Traditionally, land and property have been passed down through the family. But trade wars, low prices, and an unpredictable climate have left the next generation wary of a future in agriculture...

Between 1992 and 2012, almost 31 million acres of farm and ranch land have been taken out of production..

But many rural tax and estate planning specialists also are retiring.."

It's a highly complex, many faceted problem. But the bottom line is simple enough, big changes are coming, and we aren't even talking about them.

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2019/0401 ... place-them


That is more of an estate tax argument than anything else you claim.

Figure it out : ANSWER: the saying goes same amount of cows being milked less farmers.

I'd ask you what changes are coming and be specific but already this has strayed too far.
By late
#15046593
Finfinder wrote:
1) That is more of an estate tax argument than anything else you claim.

2) Figure it out : ANSWER: the saying goes same amount of cows being milked less farmers.

3)I'd ask you what changes are coming and be specific

4) but already this has strayed too far.



1) Not really. As mentioned, there is a lot going on here. If I feel frisky some day, I might start a thread to dive into it in detail.

2) You are saying farming will become more industrial. As others have observed, that is simply not sustainable. Which means it won't last. We import about half our food now, that number has been going up, and it will continue to go up. Until we decide to start in on the next era in agriculture.

3) We are headed for a transition. Farming in the desert has limits. Water is one of them, but the lack of soil usually means things like metals leach into the grow medium. The midwest is facing a hotter, drier climate and the Ogallala aquifer is getting depleted. Not a good combination.

I've talked about some of the other problems, like soil depletion, pollution and the growing toxicity of pesticides.

Eventually we are going to have to change.
User avatar
By Finfinder
#15046595
late wrote:1) Not really. As mentioned, there is a lot going on here. If I feel frisky some day, I might start a thread to dive into it in detail.

2) You are saying farming will become more industrial. As others have observed, that is simply not sustainable. Which means it won't last. We import about half our food now, that number has been going up, and it will continue to go up. Until we decide to start in on the next era in agriculture.

3) We are headed for a transition. Farming in the desert has limits. Water is one of them, but the lack of soil usually means things like metals leach into the grow medium. The midwest is facing a hotter, drier climate and the Ogallala aquifer is getting depleted. Not a good combination.

I've talked about some of the other problems, like soil depletion, pollution and the growing toxicity of pesticides.

Eventually we are going to have to change.


I have no idea what you are saying when you say industrial and we already have transitioned and it is already sustainable. I deal with it every day. Go for it on the thread.
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