The Popular Vote... - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15034242
Wellsy wrote:That the two party system doesn't reflect two essential poles but only minor differences for the illusion of opposition is only a break down of the illusion to the more substantive reality that it is but is class domination where if one thinks our politics is determined primarily by the vote, they miss the majority of politics that precedes it and makes substantive changes to the way of life of a people.
This illusion has in large part been broken by the attack on the right and ability to actually vote. But the problems of our times won't be resolved by universal suffrage limited to the political sphere already dominated by capital.


Nothing new there Wellsy. I see a difference between the USA workers and the Mexican ones. The Mexican ones are very aware of how they are exploited and who is responsible. The USA ones? A lot of bullshit they still believe in Wellsy. And they are like German voters in WWII in the 1930's easy to manipulate.


My ex-boss was a classic liberal who loved Hillary. She was so confident Hillary had the election in the bag, she invited all the employees to her house to celebrate on election night. I told her, "She is going to lose. To Trump." She laughed at me. I told her, "Make America Great Again." I told her, "The American voters are fascists in their hearts. Racist fascist people with uneducated politics. They are losing their rights as workers and many of the middle classes love segregated gated communities. The liberals caught them asleep at the wheel and put that Obama as a 'symbol' of liberal democracy. They are awoken now....and they are coming for blood. They hate the liberals and their smug pro-capitalist politically correct bullshit. Fascism is coming.

I am leaving for Mexico. The USA is going to be a hate-filled nation wanting to blame Latinos, hate on Blacks, and back white racist assholes with money. I am gone.

I was taught to assess political climates since childhood and it is going down badly here in the next ten years.

She laughed. Til election day. I made my move early. The Jews should have made their move in 1934.
By BigSteve
#15034248
Presvias wrote:You're welcoming civil war?


What a monumentally stupid thing to say.

First, I believe it's the idiots on the left who always seem to be clamoring about "civil war".

Second, I know of no good American who welcomes a civil war. I know plenty of good Americans, though, who would not be afraid to fight one.

There's a difference between wanting one and being willing to fight one. Good Americans fall into the latter...

Well, let's hope you don't accidentally get shot, or your 'side' don't end up shooting themselves to death..given the fact that most gun deaths and gun incidents are accidental/suicidal or right wing nutjob mass shooters.


I've been in combat, junior. I know exactly who to kill.

And, given that leftist pussies are afraid of guns, I guess the only thing good Americans will have to worry about is the rocks being thrown at them...

Yep, not a good idea really, is it.


Civil war? No, it's not. But if it must be fought, so be it...
#15034255
Big Steve, what you should be afraid of are the white nationalists getting their asses rounded up and put in jail. The fascist element in the USA is not the German one from WWII. It is a pro capitalist neo liberal form of fascism and nationalistic ra ra people are going to get rounded up and jailed as well as many on the left. Guns are no match for swat teams and courts who favor wealthy capitalists who love international capitalism.

The Nationalists don't control power here. Fascist globalists do. You need to understand that but I doubt you do.
#15034259
Zionist Nationalist wrote:surprising to hear this from you.
do you think globalization is bad?


Zionist, globalism is a fact of life. It is the reason why you go to Walmart and most of the things sold are made in the PRC. Why most of what is consumed is made in many different nations and why international banking is where the power for economic activity resides. People who deny what that means and think they can take America back from the pussies on the Left and the liberals and who are fools because they think the USA is about national interests never did their homework.

Capitalism needs expansion like oxygen to breathe, expand and control many markets in order to move capital comfortably. You can't do that if you are loyal to nations and nation-states. In Hitler's writings you see him negotiating with factory owners and capitalists but he had a vision of national industries centralized from Germany and expanding outwards as long as it remained in the hands of the state. He was an ideologue for National Socialism. Not so with the new power brokers in international capitalism. They have no problem farming out their jobs and workers to foreign nations and not having a central government in one nation calling the shots. They form internationalist coalitions and seek tax havens and shelters in many nations. It is called multi-polarity.

They encourage nationalism in certain electoral campaigns if it makes workers compete for a race to the bottom. The end of that thinking is to keep a lot of the profit from leaving exclusively international liberalistic hands. That is why the media is controlled by billionaires who are liberals. It is a good narrative to push diversity and acceptance of many cultures..it fits an agenda of capitalistic profits. Not because they are loyal to the USA and put their hands over their hearts to pledge allegiance to the flag.

They pledge allegiance to their own interests. It is fairly narrow. To be able to control markets, sell to the many consumers world wide. To promote the capitalist economic interests and to pay off politicians in many nations who try to pass legislation that doesn't help their cause of controlling it well.

It is not something the nationalistic racist tendency people want to accept. But it is reality. I think the modern nationalists don't really understand capitalism well at all. If they did? They would realize that the true enemy are not the undocumented workers and álien cultures invading their pristine society. It is the people who claim to be about freedom and who actively seek to destroy national interests to be able to have complete freedom to gain the most money from the most control of all the nations on the planet.

It is interesting that only people who study capitalism very well on the hard Left tend to see it. The Right is too involved with protecting their narrow visions of tradition and national myths.
By Presvias
#15034261
BigSteve wrote:What a monumentally stupid thing to say.


LOL.

Do you think that others have the gift of mind reading...no one can guess what you really think when you make cryptic gif posts.

What else did you expect me to think when you post a gif that proudly boasts about right wingers having bullets with no further commentary?

For heaven's sake man, speak your mind!

Don't be coy.

First, I believe it's the idiots on the left who always seem to be clamoring about "civil war".


Examples?

Second, I know of no good American who welcomes a civil war. I know plenty of good Americans, though, who would not be afraid to fight one.


The same people posting gifs about having plenty of bullets, by any chance? :moron:

There's a difference between wanting one and being willing to fight one. Good Americans fall into the latter...


They do?

Nice!!!

I've been in combat, junior. I know exactly who to kill.


Are you Rambo??

And, given that leftist pussies are afraid of guns, I guess the only thing good Americans will have to worry about is the rocks being thrown at them...


I'd be very careful with your assumptions, from what I understand there are plenty of fecked off vets who are against war, Trump and much else like that. Never underestimate your fellow countrymen.

Civil war? No, it's not. But if it must be fought, so be it...


It sounds like you're raring to go.

Get to the chopperrrr!!!
#15034292
Here in Canada, we are having a federal election. The ruling Liberals are ahead in projected seats (in the House of Commons) while the Conservatives are ahead in the number of likely voters.

Well, I guess the majority of Canadians can simply accept that it is a waste of time to vote for anything other than Liberals.

The system works as intended.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15034301
BigSteve wrote:Yet you seem to believe that California having better representation than Wyoming is a good thing.
Democracy. Isn't that a thing in the USA, where they brag about being the most Democratic country in the world, and where equality is part and parcel of that Democracy?

BigSteve wrote:But, again, the opinions of someone living in some third world country hardly matters...
Here are your feelings going to work again. Where someone lives, on this forum, is irrelevant, even if you do feel otherwise.
#15034302
Godstud wrote:Democracy. Isn't that a thing in the USA, where they brag about being the most Democratic country in the world, and where equality is part and parcel of that Democracy?

Here are your feelings going to work again. Where someone lives, on this forum, is irrelevant, even if you do feel otherwise.


@Godstud you live in that third world hellhole and only America counts for BigSteve. Lol. You dare to raise your kid outside of North America. Shame on you!

Lol. Some people have the most incredibly closed minded insular thinking Godstud. They are completely unable to fathom anyway of living if it is not the way they conceive of the world.

I remember one guy in Michigan in a diner I was eating at.....he asked me what I was doing in that small city in Michigan. I told him. He then went on to say a bunch of racist things thinking I was a white lady.....then he asked me---Are you from Michigan or the Midwest....I told him, "No I am not. I am Puerto Rican. Born in San Juan." He told me this and (I am not making it up), "You are lying. Puerto Ricans speak English with a thick accent and they are impolite criminals with knives. You are an educated lady and you aren't black. No, you are lying. Puerto Ricans don't act or look like you do. I know. They are low life pieces of trash. You aren't like that. You are just busting my chops trying to get a rise out of me." I nearly spit out my drink.....

He was such a fool. Lol. :lol:

He knows Thailand sucks. He knows America is the best in the world and let no one contradict his thoughts.

Sometimes I think people who are the most limited in mentality tend to the be the ones who feel the most threatened by difference in others. It scares them to bits.

Who knows why? Cultural cowards. There are a surprising amount of them in many places Godstud.
By Hindsite
#15034310
Tainari88 wrote:Zionist, globalism is a fact of life. It is the reason why you go to Walmart and most of the things sold are made in the PRC.

Walmart is in Israel too? If that is the case, I might go on one of those Christian tours to Israel.

Tainari88 wrote:It is interesting that only people who study capitalism very well on the hard Left tend to see it. The Right is too involved with protecting their narrow visions of tradition and national myths.

I am sure glad I am not on the hard left.
Praise the Lord.
By BigSteve
#15034375
Godstud wrote:Democracy. Isn't that a thing in the USA, where they brag about being the most Democratic country in the world, and where equality is part and parcel of that Democracy?


Yes, it is.

And our system guarantees that people in Wyoming have as loud a voice as people in California...

Here are your feelings going to work again. Where someone lives, on this forum, is irrelevant, even if you do feel otherwise.


I know it must hurt your feelings to realize that someone may not give a shit about your opinion, but I suspect that's the case here more than you think. You can certainly opine, ignorantly or otherwise, on matters of American politics, but I just don't put a whole lot of value on the opinions of someone who doesn't even live here telling us what's wrong with our system...
User avatar
By Godstud
#15034376
BigSteve wrote:And our system guarantees that people in Wyoming have as loud a voice as people in California...
Their votes are not equal, and that makes the power of a vote in Wyoming about 60 times more powerful.

600,000 people have the same voting power as 39 million. That's not a little discrepancy.

That sort of goes against the "equality for all" part of your Constitution.

BigSteve wrote:I know it must hurt your feelings to realize that someone may not give a shit about your opinion, but I suspect that's the case here more than you think...
I had hope for you, for a second or two, but you're gone back to you silly fascination with feelings. :roll:

Why do you think that feelings has to do with anything? I "care" about as much for your posts, as you do mine, in that I have no emotional investment in them, despite what you'd like to tell yourself. This forum isn't about feelings, and I haven't once discussed what you seem obsessed with.

Respond to what I am posting, and not what you "feel" I am posting. I am not fishing for your approval, no matter what you might believe. That's just delusional.
#15034382
CNN(AKA Fake News):"The road to abolish the Electoral College may just run through Texas"

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/16/opin ... index.html

When the mainstream media is trying to push something like that I know that it needs to be stopped because whats good for them bad for the rest of us (those who are not brainwashed by them)
Hypocrite liberals want to abolish the electoral collage only because it went against them in the last elections but if it was the other way around they would praise it and would make it even more powerful
#15034399
[off-topic section, including a rule 2 violation, deleted - Prosthetic Conscience]

Back on topic, the popular vote is very important. But? Most electoral systems are subject to fraud, manipulations and outright undemocratic practices. In the Phillipines for example only very wealthy individuals are allowed to run for office. So the ones who usually wind up winning never come from the poorest of the poor in the Phillipines and rarely make any meaningful changes to serve that population. It is the way it works in many supposedly 'democratic' nations in the world.

Some nations do elect people who reflect regular humble folks but they get tremendous opposition from the elite and from bankers and international capital. It is predictable.

Popular votes in my opinion are only as good as the quality of candidates that reflect the working people in a nation. It is also about who people think reflects their value system.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15034472
[off topic section deleted - Prosthetic Conscience]

Now...
Can anyone else inform me as to why they think the electoral college is "equality" under the Constitution? It makes votes in some areas far more powerful than in others, as I've already pointed out.

Why isn't the popular vote considered, especially when the electoral college is so anti-Democratic?
#15034473
Godstud wrote:
Can anyone else inform me as to why they think the electoral college is "equality" under the Constitution?


I won't inform you of that because the Electoral College isn't ''equality'' except in the sense of giving smaller states and more rural areas some equality with larger states and urban megalopolities.

It would suck if in the future the views of Bourgeoisie in five or so urban centers say, had greater electoral heft than a large but low voter population African American farming region in Mississippi.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15034475
Yes, but that's what Democracy is, and why shouldn't more people have more say? That's why everyone has a vote.

A vote should hold the same power regardless of where they live.

annatar1914 wrote:It would suck if in the future the views of Bourgeoisie in five or so urban centers say, had greater electoral heft than a large but low voter population African American farming region in Mississippi.
No. It would make perfect sense, as that's where the vast majority of the population lives. Is it any better having a "low voter population African American farming region in Mississippi" deciding things for a vast majority of people? I think not.

And I am not considering your "bourgeoisie" comment as anything but a distraction. Working class people fill cities.
By BigSteve
#15034478
Godstud wrote:Yes, but that's what Democracy is, and why shouldn't more people have more say? That's why everyone has a vote.

A vote should hold the same power regardless of where they live.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the founding fathers of the United States understood what's right for our country more than someone living on Thailand ever would...
User avatar
By Godstud
#15034489
:O
USA is just another "great" country. Canada, Norway, Denmark, Australia, and many others also fit the bill.

Where I live is as relevant as where you live. Time to get over it. Why should it matter, and why do you CARE so much?

There would not be Amendments to the Constitution if the Founders always got it right, and that things don't change over time.
#15034499
Yes, but that's what Democracy is, and why shouldn't more people have more say? That's why everyone has a vote.


I'm not disagreeing with you in one sense, but America is not a direct Democracy, nor was it set up as one. It was set up as a Aristocratic Oligarchic Republic, like Venice's ''Serene Republic'' was or the Dutch Republic under the Stadtholder after independence from Spain.

A vote should hold the same power regardless of where they live.


Or regardless of money or circumstances of birth or wealth in general.

No. It would make perfect sense, as that's where the vast majority of the population lives. Is it any better having a "low voter population African American farming region in Mississippi" deciding things for a vast majority of people? I think not.


There is a principle in all good government historically speaking, called ''Subsidarity'' where decisions are best made on the local level by people most familiar with local issues. If the people in lower population areas are outnumbered, those issues are disregarded and made secondary to the issues important in urban areas.

And I am not considering your "bourgeoisie" comment as anything but a distraction. Working class people fill cities.


And so do Bourgeoisie fill the cities. They are around the urban workers on a daily basis to some degree and thus have a harder time ignoring them and their problems; the people in ''fly-over country'' who work for a living feeding and watering and supplying the great cosmopolitan areas can often be ignored, and as history bears out, truly are.
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