[Atlantis]

@Beren, I was skeptical about the Thai figures because of the exposure to Chinese tourism, especially from Wuhan. The junta keeps a tight lid on information; however, it's impossible to hide a large Wuhan or Italy-scale outbreak with tens of thousands of deaths. Going by the experience from other countries, Thailand should have tens of thousands of deaths if the virus spread without control since January. In a relatively young population, it's possible to hide even a million of mild or asymptomatic cases, but not the deaths.

Not all containment measures are high-tech. That's why even emerging or developing countries do have the means to control the virus. Sometimes leg-work, which is cheaper in the 3rd world, is more important than fancy technology.

[Beren]

I was skeptical about the Thai figures because of the exposure to Chinese tourism, especially from Wuhan. The junta keeps a tight lid on information

Thank you.

[Godstud]

I cannot actually disprove the Thai government

No. You cannot. That's why it's a frivolous claim based on feelings.

I just don't believe them, how is that arrogance?

You think you're right, regardless of facts, and despite you not having an argument.

You're the usual arrogant here, especially if it's about Thailand, which is supposed to be a role model for the rest of the world it seems.

I am not arrogant. I am well informed.

Thailand is not a role model for everything. That's a ridiculous thing to say. Poor troll.

Thailand has, however, responded very well in its handling of the Coronavirus. The numbers pretty much speak for themselves, and your vapid comments aren't an argument.

Taiwan probably did the best handling of the Coronavirus. That should be the ultimate model, as they kept their deaths down to absolute minimal levels, and their economy suffered the least for it.

Sweden's Coronavirus numbers, do not support this theory that they're "doing it right".

@Atlantis political information is often controlled, but not medical information. In fact, the PM of Thailand has been letting his health ministers and doctors inform the public about curfews, closures, and lockdowns. People have been very well informed about Covid-19 and what's happening in their provinces.

[Beren]

I am not arrogant.

Yes, you are, and emotional too. Wife, family and Thailand are great and sacred!

[Godstud]

@Beren Still no argument.

Incidentally:

Please note Thailand's place on this list.

These are the countries best prepared for health emergencies
On this scale, the US is the “most prepared” nation (scoring 83.5), with the UK (77.9), the Netherlands (75.6), Australia (75.5) and Canada (75.3) behind it. Thailand and South Korea are the only countries outside of the West that rank in this category.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/02/ ... ergencies/


Sweden's death rate rises amid herd immunity strategy
The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population.

By contrast, Denmark has recorded just over seven deaths per 100,000 people, and both Norway and Finland less than four.

Sweden has registered 18,926 coronavirus cases and 2,274 deaths among its population of 10.3 million people.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/world ... -strategy/

[Beren]

@Beren Still no argument.

How should I imagine Godstud waiting for an argument? Would you post a picture?

However, I just thanked Atlantis for some arguments, although I'm not really interested in discussing Thailand and doing all the stuff it requires me to do properly. I don't believe their numbers, even though I can't and don't even care to disprove them as well, of course. In my opinion only fools do believe such absurd numbers, and you can't do anything about that.

[Godstud]

How should I imagine Godstud waiting for an argument? Would you post a picture?

Normally, you'd have a reasonable argument, so I am a bit puzzled at your sudden lack of one. You are not normally posting childish responses. Why now?

Do you not like when people question claims that you cannot support?

I don't believe their numbers, even though I can't and don't even care to disprove them as well, of course.

Your feelings on this are noted.

In my opinion only fools do believe such absurd numbers, and you can't do anything about that.

The absurd numbers are the ones coming out of the USA and UK.

If you cannot prove the numbers are false, then you're making a foolish claim, all in a weak attempt to prop up a really poor argument.

[Beren]

I don't really understand what you want from me. I posted an article saying that the Swedish model will be the world model because nothing else is realistic at all as such, you decide if you read it. My mistake must have been that I dared to mention Thailand as a country four times as rural as Sweden.

[Godstud]

Bangkok is not rural. It's a city of 9 million people(almost the whole population of Sweden) and that's where Thailand had its very first outbreak. The vast majority of all cases came from there, and they managed to control it, for the most part.

You really need to understand Thailand a bit, as well, since you can drive from Bangkok to Pattaya, 142 km away, and never actually notice that you left the city. It might have a rural population, with about 75% being in the country, but it's not a sparse population, by any means.

Fun fact: Thailand is only 14% larger than Sweden and yet has a population that is 7 times greater, and 5 times the population density.

Taiwan and Thailand are realistic. Sweden's 10% death rate is nothing to be modeled after.

[Atlantis]

Poor dudes, even the Swedes don't want them



@Godstud, the junta keeps a tight control on information, especially corona information since it impacts the tourist industry and therefore the economy. In February, regional health authorities were barred from announcing corona cases in their jurisdiction. It's all controlled by the central authorities and the junta. It would be naive to assume that they don't massage the data to some degree. It'll all come out once excess deaths data become available.

[Beren]

Dear @Atlantis, would you keep your arrogance at bay, please? As I always say to prove my point, Bangkok alone is a crowded city of 9 million, so 3019 Coronavirus cases and 56 deaths in Thailand is a clear proof of how effectively the Thai government handles the issue because that numbers are totally valid and believable until proven otherwise. Now let me check my great Thai wife in our great Thai kitchen until that happens.

Cheers,

Canadian expat and husband from Thailand (the greatest land in the world)

[Godstud]

@Atlantis What tourism? You mean the internal tourism since Thailand closed the border (land, sea and air)2 months ago. That tourism? You mean how quickly they stopped Chinese tourism(the biggest tourist demographic in Thailand)? There are a lot of false accusations but no evidence to support them. Negative wishful thinking on you and Beren's parts.

The "junta", no longer exists. They had an election last year. Thailand is every bit as Democratic as the USA(Take that for what it is).

Medical professionals from all over Thailand are sharing information with media and each other, unhindered.

@Beren Don't try to be an ass. It doesn't suit you.

I live in Thailand. If I ever said, "Thailand is the greatest place in the world!", I was using hyperbole. I love the place, but I am not blind to its faults. I love the culture and people, not the government.

I do know a great many people, scattered throughout the country, including businessmen and medical professionals. I travel extensively, all over Thailand. I see the impact this virus has had on business(I am a business owner in one of the hardest hit areas), first hand.

I see the efforts that the government and the medical system have done to limit the spread of Covid-19, now, and plans for the future. I, and others, have had to adhere to the policies they've made. My business has been closed since the beginning of March. It's unlikely to be re-opened until July, and at limited occupancy, due to health regulations, issued by the government.

Travelers from other provinces(there are 76 of them) for the last 2 months+ have had to be quarantined(2 weeks), isolated, and tested. These same procedures are being done in other countries.

[Beren]

@Beren Don't try to be an ass. It doesn't suit you.

I'm just trying to parody you, I wonder though if I try hard enough or it's too much real for a parody.

[Godstud]

No, @Beren You are trying to distract from the topic, and dismiss anything I say, because of some feelings you have about the Thai government.

If we were talking about the country you are living in, and were knowledgeable about, then I wouldn't be dismissing your arguments because of out-dated, or fanciful beliefs.

Thailand is not China. There have already been negative news articles about how the government handled the virus, early on.

[Beren]

No, @Beren You are trying to distract from the topic, and dismiss anything I say, because of some feelings you have about the Thai government.

I don't have any special feelings about the Thai government except that they're lying such lies that are completely unbelievable to me.

[Godstud]

I don't have any special feelings about the Thai government except that they're lying such lies that are completely unbelievable to me.

Since you have no evidence to support this, those are feelings. You also feel no need to support a baseless claim, to the point where you are engaging in willful ignorance.

Those feelings are making you biased against anything I say, regardless of the facts I can present. So, I guess you have nothing further to say on the actual topic, which you've thoroughly distracted from.


Even if I multiplied the death and infection rates by 20(to allow your for baseless claims of government corruption), it would still be a better model than Sweden, with it's 10% death rate. Sweden, with it's 10% death rate, is not a good model to follow. There are better ones. My argument is valid.

[Beren]

So, I guess you have nothing further to say on the actual topic

Sweden is the actual topic, but you seem rather interested in discussing Thailand. Keep believing the Thai government's ridiculous numbers if you like Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation I don't care.

[noemon]

Half the population of Thailand are rural, whereas it's 12-13% in Sweden's case, so it's easier for Thailand to be pandemic-resistant. Do you mean the world should be more rural in general?

The same is true when Sweden is compared to any other modern western country. Sweden is one of the most sparsely populated countries in the world. It is not an international hub of any kind. Its people have less social bonds than most people in the world, elders are isolated from their families by default and so on and forth.

Sweden is doing really bad considering all these things. While Eastern European countries are similar to Sweden in that their airports are empty even during their default peak times anyway, and they share similar northern cold & anti-social cultures even when compared to the Brits and the Americans who are in between the Meds and the Northerners due to assimilation.

[Godstud]

@Beren I've clearly demonstrated that the "Swedish Model" is nothing to follow, and you have a hard time accepting facts, which is remarkably silly. You can't prove any claims, so all your talk is just mindless belief.

I don't understand why you have such ignorance and bias against a country you really know nothing about.

Sweden is doing really bad considering all these things.

QFT. The trouble is, they've been sold on this by right-wing pundits, who think that opening things up is the answer.

[Beren]

So, @noemon, what's your long-term alternative to herd immunity?