Why is it that the left blindly support government restriction of civil liberties (lockdowns)? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15138946
All across the Western world, there seems to be two opposition groups forming, when it comes to government COVID lockdown policies:

1. Those that oppose, or at least criticise, harsh lockdowns. A politically diverse group of people.
2. People who will attack group #1 everywhere (physically and on social media) for doing so. Mainly the entire left, socialists, progressives, etc. It seems if you oppose or criticise government COVID policies, you're as good as a holocaust denier and need to be cancelled and shut down.

Don't you find it weird that people who are supposed to represent the PEOPLE from the gutter, blindly support liberal-capitalist government covid policies? In America they also blindly stand behind Biden (even if he has not a single socialist bone in his body, despite what right wing fools say).

Regardless of your opinion on lockdowns and covid (which is not the topic), don't you find it weird that the left has effectively become the hounds of the liberal-capitalist establishment?

What is your reasoning as to why this happens and why they behave as such? Why take a side which isn't really left wing in nature when you're left wing?
#15138950
I find people say one thing and then do the opposite. That is they support restrictions and then bend them so much it defeats the purpose of them. People aren't stupid. They know if they are a risk factor or not. But at the same time they don't want to seem callous. So masks, two feet, they'll do that. But they'll still meet up with my mom for a catch and head down the shop for a packet of crisps just to get out the house. Since lockdown supermarkets are rammed and my local park is like a hot summers evening in August but its a rainy November. You cannot make this BS up.
#15138958
B0ycey wrote:I find people say one thing and then do the opposite. That is they support restrictions and then bend them so much it defeats the purpose of them. People aren't stupid. They know if they are a risk factor or not. But at the same time they don't want to seem callous. So masks, two feet, they'll do that. But they'll still meet up with my mom for a catch and head down the shop for a packet of crisps just to get out the house. Since lockdown supermarkets are rammed and my local park is like a hot summers evening in August but its a rainy November. You cannot make this BS up.


I myself behave in a civic manner (social distancing, mask, avoiding unnecessary travel) because I believe in COVID and minimum lockdown policies.

However where I also have a hard time is when I see a mob of leftist radicals (on social media or in the street), attacking an open forum or person opposing/criticising the lockdowns.

From my POV, it's within their democratic right to do so and question COVID policies.

Feels to me like the more rabbid left wing people are the most servile and least critical-thinking people in society at the moment. That's not to say I love Trump supporters, but they don't behave anywhere near the same.
#15138959
lancer345 wrote:I myself behave in a civic manner (social distancing, mask, avoiding unnecessary travel) because I believe in COVID and minimum lockdown policies.


Sure. Most of the critical on this issue in the UK do so also. My point is people are bending the more 'draconian' measures whether that is intentional, ignorance, or necessity despite saying they back the measures 100%. I have lost count of the amount of Facebook pro lockdown users picturing themselves doing clear breaches of the rules... the main one meeting up with friends. Not family... friends and not understanding what they are doing. And let's not forget the "Black Lives Matter" protests were illegal but everyone went there anyway. Nonetheless I can't say I have seen a left-right divide over Covid actually as it seems more age related, but I have certainly seen some hypocrites
#15138966
noemon wrote:The Greek Communists & other Leftists are the ones on the streets protesting the lockdown.

For the Greek left, individual liberty is the highest ideal. The Greek right is the one that used to require "patriotism certificates".


It is interesting how the left/right spectrum clearly varies by country.
I think it's the Anglo left (and Germany to boot) that is behaving very specifically and abnormally.
The spectrum you describe in Greece sounds like what I'd expect of a normal left/right spectrum.
#15138984
Red_Army wrote:I dunno, why do the liberty loving independent conservatives drop to their knees to suck cop dick at every opportunity? That's an authority and I haven't met a conservative whose lips weren't crusted with police ejaculate.

I guess the left likes government until they tell them to do things they don't want to do. And the right only trusts the government when they enforce their interests.

In conclusion, most people are self-serving hypocrites.
#15138985
Because they fucking work.

I went through a real, strict, two month lockdown from late January to early March and a soft lockdown after. I've been happily maskless (except on public transport), bar hopping, going to the gym and movies, shopping, etc. since May.

Americans are dumb as fuck. This is compounded by the fact that the same people that oppose lockdowns will also, invariably, oppose any measures that make lockdowns unnecessary (as demonstrated in New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, and China since May). Yes, lockdowns suck. And they're unncessary, if you're willing to accept a few simple measures to isolate and prevent community spread of cases. That is:

    1. Mandatory contact tracing, through apps usually that track location either by GPS or by forcing you to 'sign in' when you board public transport, enter a shop, etc. <------ This is the number 1 thing you need to prevent lockdowns because it allows you to quarantine all contacts to any new cases immediately.
    2. Strict quarantine on leaving province/states/cities with local lockdowns already in place. <------------- this is number 2 so that you can prevent spread from city to city so any lockdown that becomes necessary is isolated to one location.
    3. Mass free public testing. <---------- This is necessary before 1 and 2, but less necessary after community spread is largely eliminated.
    3. Mandatory use of masks on public transport <------------ Only necessary in cases with high community spread.
    4. Fever testing at shops to identify early risk cases <----------- Data is mixed on the efficacy of this, but all the countries that have largely eliminated coronavirus do it. How this works is that each place of business checks temperature. If you register a fever, you get sent to a fever clinic and tested for covid19.
    5. Mandatory 2-week quarantine for all incoming travelers from abroad. <-------- Once local spread has been eliminated, this prevents it from popping up again.

The solution is known, it exists, it is easy to implement, and its literally just the arrogance of individuals like OP that have led to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths. The initial lockdown should be to get a handle on community spread and identify vectors of infection. This failed in the US because of individuals like OP. Lockdown once, for real, in the next two months, put in these measures, nationwide, and watch covid 19 be gone from the US by April.

It's an easy problem to solve, and the inability of Western states to solve it is an indictment on the sort of society they have cultivated.

And before anyone says something silly like "In liberal democracies we don't believe in coercive solutions!"

Yeah, you do. Look at the top countries by share of population in prison. Come on, man. I get sent to jail for smoking a little reefer, and you can't enforce covid quarantine measures? Australia, Taiwan, south Korea, Japan and New Zealand aren't liberal democracies? You can adopt effective and temporary quarantine measures without abandoning a free society, but it requires 1) trust in government and 2) personal sacrifice - two things Western societies, these days, are completely without.
#15139027
lancer345 wrote: don't you find it weird that the left has effectively become the hounds of the liberal-capitalist establishment?


Not really given that the "liberal" establishment isn't liberal and the "left" isn't left. The "liberal" establishment is blatantly fascistic and the "left" loves fascism. That's why there isn't a single retarded hoax perpetrated by the fascistic "liberal" establishment that the "left" hasn't immediately jumped on board with. The "left" likes authoritarianism, the "left" likes anti-social collectivism, the "left" likes technocratic oligarchical despotism, and that's what the fascistic "liberal" establishment is all about. They're birds of a feather so they flock together.
#15139030
lancer345 wrote:1. Those that oppose, or at least criticise, harsh lockdowns. A politically diverse group of people.

Not really, they're all usually far-right with strong beliefs in conspiracy theories and other such nonsense and thinking that the virus is a leftist hoax or some other bullshit. I mean, they politicized basic health and safety measures under vague claims that they threaten "liberty" when this isn't even the most authoritarian measures that have ever been taken or could be taken to protect the public health. Lockdowns are meant to stop the spread so hospitals aren't overwhelmed. It ain't a conspiracy or an attempt to transform the west into a dictatorship. The only thing we need is a stimulus check so people don't starve, but that can be done.
#15139032
Unthinking Majority wrote:The left trusts government more than the right. They also value the "greater good" over personal liberties more often than the right.

The right favors individualism; the left favors collectivism.
#15139038
Random American wrote:Individual rights only matter to the right when it is convenient. It's not like you guys oppose coercion as a whole.

Some people think coercion is great because you get to tell people what to do and if they don't do it you get to send government employees with guns and clubs to their house and drag them away & then lock them in a cage. 3 cheers for laws!
#15139089
Random American wrote:Not really, they're all usually far-right with strong beliefs in conspiracy theories and other such nonsense and thinking that the virus is a leftist hoax or some other bullshit. I mean, they politicized basic health and safety measures under vague claims that they threaten "liberty" when this isn't even the most authoritarian measures that have ever been taken or could be taken to protect the public health. Lockdowns are meant to stop the spread so hospitals aren't overwhelmed. It ain't a conspiracy or an attempt to transform the west into a dictatorship. The only thing we need is a stimulus check so people don't starve, but that can be done.


You make an unproven blanket statement like that.
Here in France, in numerous cities, there have been protests by completely politically mixed groups, it has nothing to do with the far right. I'm baffled by the imbecility of such a post. You're also the kind of person that's going to call the yellow vest movement "far right". Anything that's against the government policies must be far right in your book.

This kind of imbecilic polarising political discourse is abhorrent to democracy. Anyone you dislike and protests in the street is not "far right". You're just soaking up unproven government & progressive-liberal argumentation.

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