There is No Liberal Socialist Utopia - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15139134
There are basically two ways of thought. Objective science and subjective beliefs. The science of yesteryear turns into a belief as we discover that night doesn’t occur because God pulls a blanket over the earth and stars aren’t little gaps where the light of heaven shines through. Yet if you still believe, no amount of objectivity will persuade you it doesn’t happen. Over time we internalize these beliefs and they become facts and objective facts becomes belief based opinions.

Regressing to an age of beliefs is the hallmark of liberal anarchy. From here arise the new-age superstitions of a ‘mother earth’ and a 16 year old mystical sage with autism who informs us that the world is going to end. Our new-age belief government ‘experts’ tell us that it might, possibly, could be, maybe true. These beliefs replace reality as we drift off into a fantasy world and look for the bodies of a great plague that we’re told is sweeping the world, or might do if not now then later.

In this crazy world, knowledge and common sense take a back seat as Google becomes the new belief based liberal encyclopedia, the BBC its spokesperson and the government, the font of all knowledge. Critical thinking has largely disappeared; who needs to think if someone else will do it?

Image

Many of you are not socialists.Hardline socialists Tony Benn and Jeremy Corbyn knew what the EU is and are against it. You’re supporting a 1% political elite who fooled you into believing they’d bring you a European Liberal People’s Utopia. There is no utopia. Explain to me why I’m wrong. Tell me the following link is a conspiracy theory.

The EU 1% gravy train.

It still puzzles me why, if you can see something that isn’t happening do you continue to believe it does? Enlighten me preferably without using poster attacks, silly one liners, or changing the subject. :)
#15139139
Jeremiah Squatpump wrote:There are basically two ways of thought. Objective science and subjective beliefs. The science of yesteryear turns into a belief as we discover that night doesn’t occur because God pulls a blanket over the earth and stars aren’t little gaps where the light of heaven shines through. Yet if you still believe, no amount of objectivity will persuade you it doesn’t happen. Over time we internalize these beliefs and they become facts and objective facts becomes belief based opinions.

Regressing to an age of beliefs is the hallmark of liberal anarchy. From here arise the new-age superstitions of a ‘mother earth’ and a 16 year old mystical sage with autism who informs us that the world is going to end. Our new-age belief government ‘experts’ tell us that it might, possibly, could be, maybe true
Here are some facts , if anyone even cares about evidence anymore .
The polar ice caps are melting six times faster than in the 1990s, according to the most complete analysis to date.

The ice loss from Greenland and Antarctica is tracking the worst-case climate warming scenario set out by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), scientists say. Without rapid cuts to carbon emissions the analysis indicates there could be a rise in sea levels that would leave 400 million people exposed to coastal flooding each year by the end of the century.

Rising sea levels are the one of the most damaging long-term impacts of the climate crisis, and the contribution of Greenland and Antarctica is accelerating. The new analysis updates and combines recent studies of the ice masses and predicts that 2019 will prove to have been a record-breaking year when the most recent data is processed.

The previous peak year for Greenland and Antarctic ice melting was 2010, after a natural climate cycle led to a run of very hot summers. But the Arctic heatwave of 2019 means it is nearly certain that more ice was lost last year.

The average annual loss of ice from Greenland and Antarctica in the 2010s was 475bn tonnes – six times greater than the 81bn tonnes a year lost in the 1990s. In total the two ice caps lost 6.4tn tonnes of ice from 1992 to 2017, with melting in Greenland responsible for 60% of that figure.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/11/polar-ice-caps-melting-six-times-faster-than-in-1990s
#15139140
Mmm yes. I don’t doubt your data, but the last time Al Gore the ‘climate expert’ of our era said we were near deaths door nothing happened. Can you give me a date for this doomsday thing or is it one of these ‘later’ predictions?
“Summer 2019 was very warm in this region.” Yes, that's always been a problem with summers.
#15139141
Jeremiah Squatpump wrote:Yes, that's always been a problem with summers.

Temperatures in the small Siberian town of Verkhoyansk hit 100.4 degrees Fahrenheit on June 22, 2020.

And if you are wondering what I'm laughing at...

It's you.


:lol:
#15139150
Jeremiah Squatpump wrote:In this crazy world, knowledge and common sense take a back seat as Google becomes the new belief based liberal encyclopedia, the BBC its spokesperson and the government, the font of all knowledge. Critical thinking has largely disappeared; who needs to think if someone else will do it?

Image


Nice memes. Where did you find them? Google? :lol:

You make it out you're the only user who has experienced life. Guess what? You're not alone. You are on a forum where the accepted narrative is always challenged. We have had our fair share of anti BBC threads and skeptics on every level. Look around. Covid debated. Trump debated. EU debated. Brexit debate. Immigration debate. And none ever follow the accepted narrative and some get quite heated because we are not just a bunch of yesmen on here.

Perhaps it would be more wise to understand that you are an individual and even if someone is presented will all your learning that you have given here and take it as absolute, they still might disagree with your opinion. Because everyone has priorities and those priorities shape their politics. Sometimes it isn't about ignorance. Sometime they just have a different opinion.

Many of you are not socialists.Hardline socialists Tony Benn and Jeremy Corbyn knew what the EU is and are against it. You’re supporting a 1% political elite who fooled you into believing they’d bring you a European Liberal People’s Utopia. There is no utopia. Explain to me why I’m wrong. Tell me the following link is a conspiracy theory.

The EU 1% gravy train.


The hardcore socialists supported Brexit on here FYI. Some like me who are Social Democratic support the EU. But even I accept that the cracks are showing in the EU, whether that be on Turkey, Covid or immigration at the moment. Which is why I support Macron and his vision more than anything and truly hope he keeps his rhetoric high. Because the status quo won't do if the EU want to stop being a US proxy and stand shoulder to shoulder with them and China in the future. And really that is why the EU is important to me. Not for the single market. Not for immigration. Not for free travel. And not for the red passports. I support the EU for continental security and to promote continental geopolitics. We should not be a US proxy. We should not be going to illegal wars. We should be defending ourselves from any thread from Russia. And China should be ringing the EU and not America when talking about the world. Britain is just a small island in the Irish Sea. Our days are past us. But Europe as a collective, well that can be a real force in the world. And that is why your propaganda videos don't mean much to me. Sure the beauocrats act like beauocrats and they shouldn't. But I could say the same thing about Westminster and I am not asking for Guy Fawkes either.

It still puzzles me why, if you can see something that isn’t happening do you continue to believe it does? Enlighten me preferably without using poster attacks, silly one liners, or changing the subject. :)


Ignore @ingliz, he is the PoFo shitposter. But if you cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Just ignore him and don't respond. He has his purpose and his purpose is to protect his pension. Do you expect someone who resides in the EU should be positive of Brexit or decry the EU for no purpose or self interest to themselves?

As I said, you can post your Gravy train video as much as you like, all parliaments have there own gravy train and I don't see you belittling them all.
#15139153
B0ycey wrote:Ignore @ingliz, he is the PoFo shitposter.

Diddums.

How is Brexshit going, by the way?


:lol:
#15139199
B0ycey wrote:Nice memes. Where did you find them? Google? :lol:

You make it out you're the only user who has experienced life. Guess what? You're not alone. You are on a forum where the accepted narrative is always challenged. We have had our fair share of anti BBC threads and skeptics on every level. Look around. Covid debated. Trump debated. EU debated. Brexit debate. Immigration debate. And none ever follow the accepted narrative and some get quite heated because we are not just a bunch of yesmen on here.

Perhaps it would be more wise to understand that you are an individual and even if someone is presented will all your learning that you have given here and take it as absolute, they still might disagree with your opinion. Because everyone has priorities and those priorities shape their politics. Sometimes it isn't about ignorance. Sometime they just have a different opinion.



The hardcore socialists supported Brexit on here FYI. Some like me who are Social Democratic support the EU. But even I accept that the cracks are showing in the EU, whether that be on Turkey, Covid or immigration at the moment. Which is why I support Macron and his vision more than anything and truly hope he keeps his rhetoric high. Because the status quo won't do if the EU want to stop being a US proxy and stand shoulder to shoulder with them and China in the future. And really that is why the EU is important to me. Not for the single market. Not for immigration. Not for free travel. And not for the red passports. I support the EU for continental security and to promote continental geopolitics. We should not be a US proxy. We should not be going to illegal wars. We should be defending ourselves from any thread from Russia. And China should be ringing the EU and not America when talking about the world. Britain is just a small island in the Irish Sea. Our days are past us. But Europe as a collective, well that can be a real force in the world. And that is why your propaganda videos don't mean much to me. Sure the beauocrats act like beauocrats and they shouldn't. But I could say the same thing about Westminster and I am not asking for Guy Fawkes either.



Ignore @ingliz, he is the PoFo shitposter. But if you cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Just ignore him and don't respond. He has his purpose and his purpose is to protect his pension. Do you expect someone who resides in the EU should be positive of Brexit or decry the EU for no purpose or self interest to themselves?

As I said, you can post your Gravy train video as much as you like, all parliaments have there own gravy train and I don't see you belittling them all.


I expect to have disagreement, but based on knowledge and containing logic, not beliefs. Opinions based on beliefs are throw-a-way comments. The image is to reference a point, not an explanation.

My ‘propaganda’ videos might not mean much, but are they true? Not much denial going on, but plenty to say about me. That’s why I don’t think debate is a priority here, it’s more opinion based. I have started to ignore Ingliz and agree with a lot of your post, but very little addresses the op. No parliament in the world has corruption like the EU and outside the west the belief systems on this scale are on a par with North Korea.
#15139213
@Jeremiah Squatpump

Your opinion on the EU might make you bias. It isn't that the video is wrong, but in the context of governments in general, it doesn't mean much. Especially when you look into peerage. I could make the same type of video about the House of Lords.

Nonetheless what you need to understand is we are out of the EU now. It is over. Move on. But, and I can't stress this enough, it is important even for the UK today, that the EU remains strong for our and continental Europe security. It is important that we don't get bondaged into being a US proxy (which unfortunately for the UK we will be now. So we begin to take our orders from Washington rather than Brussels...great!). It is important that we can look after our own security and not fund someone elses bombs and allow us to concentrate on our and not someone elses geopolitics. And with the rise of China, the world will be run by Super states anyway. The question is do you want to be part of it or just an island in the sea? Because I do believe at some point in the future the UK will return into the EU. Not because the Brexiteers die off. Or to enter the single market. It will be because we will have to.
#15139217
B0ycey wrote:
It is important that we can look after our own security and not fund someone elses bombs and allow us to concentrate on our and not someone elses geopolitics.



Why are you identifying so resolutely with British nationalism?

Isn't NATO membership bad enough, from an anti-war, anti-imperialist standpoint?
#15139221
ckaihatsu wrote:Why are you identifying so resolutely with British nationalism?

Isn't NATO membership bad enough, from an anti-war, anti-imperialist standpoint?


I'm afraid national security should be everyone's concern. And defence doesn't need to imply attack. In fact unburden our dependence of the US and Europe would be very peaceful indeed. We also wouldn't need NATO. Plus Russia doesn't need to be threat to Europe but for some reason it still is. Not because Russia has done anything to us. But because America wants to militarise former Soviet states. Ukraine wasn't an aggression. It was to protect Crimea from US hands. Anyone with any common sense could see that.

As for geopolitics, what I mean is trade and relationships. Not war and control of oil. One thing Europe can learn from China is how to form trade relationships. But again, this relies on Europe being autonomous not a proxy.
#15139222
B0ycey wrote:
I'm afraid national security should be everyone's concern. And defence doesn't need to imply attack. In fact unburden our dependence of the US and Europe would be very peaceful indeed. We also wouldn't need NATO. Plus Russia doesn't need to be threat to Europe but for some reason it still is. Not because Russia has done anything to us. But because America wants to militarise former Soviet states. Ukraine wasn't an aggression. It was to protect Crimea from US hands. Anyone with any common sense could see that.

As for geopolitics, what I mean is trade and relationships. Not war and control of oil. One thing Europe can learn from China is how to form trade relationships. But again, this relies on Europe being autonomous not a proxy.



Do you identify more with the *country* of Britain, or with the *people*, and the *welfare* of the people of the UK?

How was the COVID response there? Do you think that the 'national security' state is looking out for the people's best interests, health-wise?

From my side of the pond, [irony] sorry about the ongoing waffling over whether to demonize Russia or China -- we really should've had a decisive Cold War 2.0 by now.... [/irony] (ugh)

The fascists in Ukraine *reached out* to the EU, and the U.S., so your meaning is rather *garbled*. You may want to rephrase.
#15139226
ckaihatsu wrote:Do you identify more with the *country* of Britain, or with the *people*, and the *welfare* of the people of the UK?


All three equally. Why do you ask?

How was the COVID response there? Do you think that the 'national security' state is looking out for the people's best interests, health-wise?


My opinion is that was their intention. But in regards to its success or their tactics, well lets just say I'm a skeptic. But what has that got to do with anything I have posted?


From my side of the pond, [irony] sorry about the ongoing waffling over whether to demonize Russia or China -- we really should've had a decisive Cold War 2.0 by now.... [/irony] (ugh)

The fascists in Ukraine *reached out* to the EU, and the U.S., so your meaning is rather *garbled*. You may want to rephrase.


Who are these fascists? Must the opinion of the people reflect that of the government? Besides, I thought you were for revolution?

Ukraine was used. Russia couldn't lose it and the West wanted it. Had the same thing happened anywhere else in Europe apart from a border Russian state, Ukraine would be in the EU now. But what I will say is that it is politically divided nation and perhaps it should be split for the sakes of peace. But America would never agree to that.
#15139231
B0ycey wrote:
All three equally. Why do you ask?



Because *some* people, whose lives and livelihoods depend on their paychecks, would readily say that there's not enough being done to *raise wages* and stop income inequality, from the likes of national leaders. Just checking, so that I don't go by my own imaginings.


B0ycey wrote:
My opinion is that was their intention. But in regards to its success or their tactics, well lets just say I'm a skeptic. But what has that got to do with anything I have posted?



I would think that public health measures would be at the *top* of any country's 'national security' concerns.


B0ycey wrote:
Who are these fascists?




Prime Minister

Main articles: First Yatsenyuk government and Second Yatsenyuk government

On February 4, 2014, a recording of a phone call between Victoria Nuland and U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt on January 28, 2014, was published on YouTube.[79][80][81][82][83] In their phone conversation, Nuland notified Pyatt that after the review of the three opposition candidates for the post of Prime Minister of Ukraine, the US State Department had selected Arseniy Yatsenyuk. She said: "I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. What he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week". Pyatt asked: "Do you want us to set up a call with him as the next step?" Nuland told Pyatt that the next step should be to set up a telephone conversation between her and the three Ukrainian candidates, with Pyatt also possibly participating. Pyatt agreed: "I think you reaching out directly to him helps with the personality management among the three and it gives you also a chance to move fast on all this stuff and put us behind it".[80][81]

Yatsenyuk was designated as the new Prime Minister of the Yatsenyuk Government following the 2014 Ukrainian revolution that removed former President Viktor Yanukovych from power.[6]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arseniy_Y ... e_Minister




The first government headed by Arseniy Yatsenyuk was created in Ukraine on 27 February 2014 in the aftermath of the Ukrainian revolution.[1] The cabinet was formed as a coalition of the parties Batkivschyna, UDAR and Svoboda and the parliamentary factions Economic Development and Sovereign European Ukraine and other independent MPs.[1]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Yat ... government




The All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" (Ukrainian: Всеукраїнське об'єднання «Свобода», Vseukrayinske obyednannia "Svoboda") is a far-right ultranationalist political party in Ukraine.[8]

It is widely considered a fascist and anti-semitic party, although others have disputed the neo-fascist label, simply considering a radical nationalist party.[9][10][11][12]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)



---


B0ycey wrote:
Must the opinion of the people reflect that of the government? Besides, I thought you were for revolution?



Not a *fascist* revolution, that's for sure, which I why I'm particularly *anti-Trump*.

Isn't the government supposed to reflect the *will of the people* -- ?


B0ycey wrote:
Ukraine was used. Russia couldn't lose it and the West wanted it. Had the same thing happened anywhere else in Europe apart from a border Russian state, Ukraine would be in the EU now. But what I will say is that it is politically divided nation and perhaps it should be split for the sakes of peace. But America would never agree to that.



Or maybe Ukraine should kick out its fascists as a priority.
#15139235
Jeremiah Squatpump wrote:
The EU 1% gravy train.



So in your mind the EU is an anti-democratic atrocity but China is just a burgeoning democracy going through an industrial revolution? Okay then. :lol:

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