Have we destroyed Christmas? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#15145161
What have we done? Santa Claus and Rudolph and Elf movies. Forking out big money to buy presents to our spoiled rotten family. Is Jesus in any of this anymore?

Shouldn't we be celebrating his birth? Shouldn't we be giving presents to the needy and people we don't know instead of ourselves? What does the joy of getting a Playstation 5 under the tree have anything to do with what we should be celebrating?

What has Christmas become? Is it good? should we redefine what it is and how we celebrate?
#15145164
Unthinking Majority wrote:What have we done? Santa Claus and Rudolph and Elf movies. Forking out big money to buy presents to our spoiled rotten family. Is Jesus in any of this anymore?

Shouldn't we be celebrating his birth? Shouldn't we be giving presents to the needy and people we don't know instead of ourselves? What does the joy of getting a Playstation 5 under the tree have anything to do with what we should be celebrating?

What has Christmas become? Is it good? should we redefine what it is and how we celebrate?


This is an interesting topic. Let's set aside the fact that we don't know if a historical Jesus figure really ever existed let alone the actual birthdate. It is thought by scholars that even the year (usually year 1 AD, while most scholars that believe an actual Jesus figure existed placed his birth a few years earlier). We don't know the year, certainly, we have even less clue about the specific date. This is not to mention, the changes to our calendars since then.
The original "Christmas" was the celebration of the winter solstice otherwise known as saturnalia. Not in honor of Jesus Christs, or the Hebrew god but rather one of the roman gods Saturn (Chronos on greek mythology), and it was surrounded about celebrations for prosperous crops (god of agriculture). If you think about it, there is a parallel, we celebrate Christmas as a prosperity celebration, consumerism. To our ancestors, this meant crops, to us it means money.
#15145173
Christmas is as good as you want it to be. I "celebrated" my non-religious Christmas by going to the nearest city, having a nice dinner with friends and family, then staying the night in a nice hotel. The next morning we went and had a nice breakfast then headed back to our home.

We don't exchange gifts. Very few Thai people would even know the religious significance of Christmas, and would recognize "Santa" before "Jesus". The kids were all dressed like Santa, though, and they have lots of fun with it.

"Have we destroyed Mondays?" is just as relevant a question. :D


Christians absconded "Yule". No one would know the birth date of "historical Jesus", but I've heard some suspect it was in July. I find it hard to believe that Jesus would be a Cancer, and not a Capricorn.
#15145174
Unthinking Majority wrote:What have we done? Santa Claus and Rudolph and Elf movies. Forking out big money to buy presents to our spoiled rotten family. Is Jesus in any of this anymore?

Shouldn't we be celebrating his birth? Shouldn't we be giving presents to the needy and people we don't know instead of ourselves? What does the joy of getting a Playstation 5 under the tree have anything to do with what we should be celebrating?

What has Christmas become? Is it good? should we redefine what it is and how we celebrate?


You're decades late with this post. Christmas was replaced with the worship of capitalism maybe just after WWII?
#15145175
QFT @Rancid. I don't get why some people are so late to the party. This was happening when I was a small child almost 50 years ago. I don't think it's any worse now, than it was then.

Christmas albums to cash in on Christmas? Check.
Buy lots of presents(commercialism)? Check.
Christmas tv shows? Check.
etc.

All these were around in the 70s. I've probably missed a lot more, too.


Merry Christmas!
#15145178
Godstud wrote:QFT @Rancid. I don't get why some people are so late to the party. This was happening when I was a small child almost 50 years ago. I don't think it's any worse now, than it was then.

Christmas albums to cash in on Christmas? Check.
Buy lots of presents(commercialism)? Check.
Christmas tv shows? Check.
etc.

All these were around in the 70s. I've probably missed a lot more, too.


I never claimed this started recently.
Last edited by Unthinking Majority on 27 Dec 2020 01:19, edited 1 time in total.
#15145179
:roll: @Unthinking Majority Stop being stupid. Trump? :knife: Trolling stupidity is all that is.
#15145182
XogGyux wrote:This is an interesting topic. Let's set aside the fact that we don't know if a historical Jesus figure really ever existed let alone the actual birthdate. It is thought by scholars that even the year (usually year 1 AD, while most scholars that believe an actual Jesus figure existed placed his birth a few years earlier).


Total crap.

The question of whether or not Jesus existed is settled. Historians came to the consensus that Jesus did exist, since he appears significantly in the Talmud, Flavius Josephus' The Antiquities, the New Testament (also authored by Jews who simply happened to be Messianic) and works by the Roman historian Tacitus.

At this stage questioning the existence of Jesus is pure anti-semetism, since most of the historical records are Jewish. Frankly. And the fact that the Jews recorded this information despite most subsequent Jews hating that religious leader, yet choosing to preserve all references to him in those works, is what basically settled things for historians.

The issue over Jesus's birthdate is due to the fact King Herod the Great, who was alive when Jesus was born, is simply believed to have died in 4BC by some historians(while others believe he died in 1BC) and this is a very minor issue.

Christians absconded "Yule". No one would know the birth date of "historical Jesus", but I've heard some suspect it was in July. I find it hard to believe that Jesus would be a Cancer, and not a Capricorn


The question of weather or not Jesus celebrated his own birthday is way more interesting, since it relates to the history of the Bar Mitzvah ceremony and when Jews started celebrating it, which is totally utterly missing in the text. But we get a description of a "Bar Mitzvah" narrative, since that means "Son of the commandment" or basically "of age", in which Jesus gets found preaching in the Temple at 12YO. Unknown whether this was his parents celebrating his Birthday with a special trip to Jerusalem or not. It's more interesting than the usual debate.

Some lay christians suspect Jesus was born in July due to a stubborn insistence "the animals can't be out in winter" in a country known to have warm winters and extremely hot summers, while also stating his parents wouldn't travel south during winter.

But Jesus being born in December makes more sense on the Jewish calendar actually since his Parents had to travel south during winter to celebrate "The Festival Of The Dedication of the Temple in Jerusalem" anyway(so may as well kill two birds with one stone and do this pesky Census stuff just 10km further south) and Israel is hot, historians know the Jews themselves slept mostly outside, so why would the animals be any different???

Most Christians who push such idiotic theories have no understanding of the Jewish Religious Travel Schedule of the First Century (brand new holiday Hannukah was also a pilgrimage holiday so the Jews all went to Jerusalem!), nor have they ever lived in country with a hotter climate.
Last edited by colliric on 27 Dec 2020 02:07, edited 1 time in total.
#15145187
colliric wrote:At this stage questioning the existence of Jesus is pure anti-semetism

So if a jew lies and/or is mistaken and you call the lie and/or mistake you are an antisemite?
That comment is taken straight out of the retard box.
#15145189
colliric wrote:Yes it is. It's pure anti-semetism now, since everyone is aware the sources are all reputable Jewish sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

LOL.

Even from your own provided source:

"Such portraits include that of Jesus as an apocalyptic prophet, charismatic healer, Cynic philosopher, Jewish messiah, prophet of social change,[19][20] and rabbi;[21][22] but there is little scholarly agreement on a single portrait, nor the methods needed to construct it."

At the end of the day... the best they can do is say.. "well, we kind of think they might have been someone that roughly lived around those times that inspired this figure". Bah. that is not the same shit.
But whatever, go around being merry.
#15145190
Whether Jesus's real birthday was on Dec. 25 isn't very relevant. If it was really on Oct. 15th who cares? Whether Jesus really existed as a real person isn't so much relevant as to why his birth is celebrated at all. The myth of Jesus as "the son of God" has power and meaning whether some guy really existed or not. Anyone but a loon knows half the stuff in the Bible never happened, the point is the meaning of these myths.

Luke Skywalker never existed but Star Wars movies still have meaning in my life, and Yoda says wise things.
#15145191
Unthinking Majority wrote:Whether Jesus's real birthday was on Dec. 25 isn't very relevant. If it was really on Oct. 15th who cares? Whether Jesus really existed as a real person isn't so much relevant as to why his birth is celebrated at all. The myth of Jesus as "the son of God" has power and meaning whether some guy really existed or not. Anyone but a loon knows half the stuff in the Bible never happened, the point is the meaning of these myths.

Luke Skywalker never existed but Star Wars movies still have meaning in my life, and Yoda says wise things.


Yoda says wise things or writers wrote him to say those things? Yoda does not exist.
You are free to enjoy the myth, the legend, the fantasy. But beware of the toll, if any, that is costing you.
#15145193
Unthinking Majority wrote:Whether Jesus's real birthday was on Dec. 25 isn't very relevant.

I agree with that. Even if a jesus figure did exist, who cares about the date that he might have been born? You want to celebrate his birth? Go ahead. Do it on Dec 25th or on Aug 1st or on april 17. Hell, do it on a different day every year for all I care.

I have seen plenty of Jews, Atheists and Muslims have more fun and enjoy "Christmas" more than actual practicing Christians because the latter is way too concerned about how Christmas is being degraded, or "the war on Christmas" or "they don't have a nativity in their front yard" or some other nonsense. Meh, tiresome.
#15145203
XogGyux wrote:Yoda says wise things or writers wrote him to say those things? Yoda does not exist.
You are free to enjoy the myth, the legend, the fantasy. But beware of the toll, if any, that is costing you.

A wise quote is a wise quote. It's completely irrelevant whether a good idea comes from a puppet with a hand up it's bum or the Dalai Lama or a Jew from 2000 years ago.
#15145204
XogGyux wrote:I have seen plenty of Jews, Atheists and Muslims have more fun and enjoy "Christmas" more than actual practicing Christians because the latter is way too concerned about how Christmas is being degraded, or "the war on Christmas" or "they don't have a nativity in their front yard" or some other nonsense. Meh, tiresome.


Me too. What I want to do is look at what we're celebrating and how. There's obviously value in fun traditions like gathering to eat food and egg nog and put up decorations.
#15145206
Unthinking Majority wrote:A wise quote is a wise quote. It's completely irrelevant whether a good idea comes from a puppet with a hand up it's bum or the Dalai Lama or a Jew from 2000 years ago.

I didn't say otherwise.

Me too. What I want to do is look at what we're celebrating and how. There's obviously value in fun traditions like gathering to eat food and egg nog and put up decorations.

Precisely.
I'd argue in that sense, Christmas is just as fun as it has ever been.
People are doing what they find "fun", whether it is spending their time decorating a tree, buying an expensive PS5 for their kids or going to a church and signing it makes little difference as far as I am concerned. Some, do the project "consumerism is not in the spirit of Christmas, our lord and savior was a poor carpenter that was born in a barn and die on a cross for our sins"... to that I say, no wonder you think it is not fun anymore with those buzzkills:lol: Joke aside, you, me, nobody should be ashamed of wanting enjoyment/pleasure and material things, maybe we should be ashamed if that is ALL we care, but if that is just a portion... a facet of our lives... I say bring it on.
#15145209
Yep. Christmas is only as good or bad as you make it.

If you want it to be about commercialism, then make sure you demand that everyone gets expensive gifts for each other. If you don't, and want it to be about family having fun times together, then do that.

@ingliz We have different parts of genetics b[…]

Farage, btw, is a Putin puppet. What a laugh. Th[…]

If the Brits ever come to their senses, that will[…]

Not much, commercial real estate is boom or bust.[…]