[Godstud]

@Deutschmania Communism? Fuck Communism!!
Capitalism with some socialist checks/balances to prevent crony and exploitative Capitalism, is the future. Everything in moderation.

Communism, alone, has failed in every single instance. Only in the CCP, where they have a Capitalist economy, has it succeeded, but at the cost of actually being Communist. China is Communist in name, only. It's a totalitarian dictatorship.

[skinster]

@Deutschmania Communism? Fuck Communism!!

No way. Communism is the future if humans aren't as retarded as what's currently on display. It was the past too.

Capitalism with some socialist checks/balances to prevent crony and exploitative Capitalism, is the future. Everything in moderation.

Yeah, it's looking great about now, isn't it?

A banking crisis every few years, depressions, austerity, latest choices between eating and heating, growing poverty, never-ending wars. The joys of capitalism!

Communism, alone, has failed in every single instance.

Communism is yet to be achieved.

Only in the CCP, where they have a Capitalist economy, has it succeeded, but at the cost of actually being Communist. China is Communist in name, only. It's a totalitarian dictatorship.

It's the CPC, the Communist Party of China, not the CCP. This alone shows the media you're reading and why your opinion on this topic is awful.

The CPC incorporate capitalism in their economy but they are a socialist state aiming for communism. And they've been successful so far as they're on the way to being the world superpower in the next decade or so.

China is not a dictatorship of any kind, how absurd. Stop reading the Western propaganda on this topic. Read the CPC in their own words and you will find out what they're about, they don't hide it. Here is a good talk by the writer of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. I haven't read the book yet, but it's on the list. But the talk is good and explains a lot of what you won't find elsewhere in the media.

[Godstud]

CCP... CPC... whatever. I don't watch Western propaganda about China. I know too many people who live and work in China to want to buy into the anti-Chinese propaganda. I routinely speak with a friend who is a solar engineer, and another who is a teacher, here in Thailand. They have problems with their government(and dislike it), but that seems to be a universal constant.

[Deutschmania]

No.

Yes, you are overlooking the systemic social change that would have to accompany a fully automated society, in balance with ecological justice. I believe that eco-sociaism can advance without being held back by deep ecology. Although technological advancement, in and of itself , is not enough to save us from disaster, it is also not inherently detrimental to human progress.

[Deutschmania]

@Deutschmania Communism? Fuck Communism!!
Capitalism with some socialist checks/balances to prevent crony and exploitative Capitalism, is the future. Everything in moderation.

Communism, alone, has failed in every single instance. Only in the CCP, where they have a Capitalist economy, has it succeeded, but at the cost of actually being Communist. China is Communist in name, only. It's a totalitarian dictatorship.

I do not know all about the conditions in the PRC , but in Vietnam they did something similar , in terms of opening their economy to market forces, yet they are still fundamentally socialist. As I have conceded before, the socio-economic system must develop in relation to the existing material conditions. For this period of time , I would say that Vietnam is socialist enough. As for China , maybe it should be both more so socialist , as well as more so a people's democracy, as a number of people among the Chinese New Left dissidents have contended. But I feel that that is a matter that the people of China should have to rightly determine for themselves. But this one couple I am aware of , the woman being native born Vietnamese , and the man an American emigrant , have an overall favorable view of the Communist led regime in Vietnam , for what it's worth.

[Godstud]

Capitalist economy, @Deutschmania. Vietnam has a Capitalist economy!!

[Deutschmania]

Capitalist economy, @Deutschmania. Vietnam has a Capitalist economy!!

You have a strange definition of capitalism then, in addition to obviously not bothering to watch any of the videos I posted. It's a self described socialist oriented market economy.

[Godstud]

When it comes down to it, nearly everyone wants private control of the markets and not government control of markets.

A guy with a noodle shop does not want the government controlling his business, while determining what he sells and at what price. You'll find that at the ground floor of these so-called Socialist countries, is Capitalism. China and Vietnam don't have government control of SMALL private business. They only want control of the BIG ones(that make lots of profits, so the governments can profit from them).

Heck, my friend does business with the rich Chinese people for building contracts and land deals, and they are as far from Communist as you can get. The government does NOT control what they do. They just want a cut.

[skinster]

Yes, you are overlooking the systemic social change that would have to accompany a fully automated society, in balance with ecological justice.

No, @Deutschmania, I am telling you radlib ideas like 'Fully Automated Luxury Capitalism' are retarded.

Here's another review on that nonsense idea/book by Bastani which you should read.

People like him and the Novara crew are not to be trusted.

[Rancid]

@QatzelOk I think it's time you obey me.

[Deutschmania]

No, @Deutschmania, I am telling you radlib ideas like 'Fully Automated Luxury Capitalism' are retarded.

Here's another review on that nonsense idea/book by Bastani which you should read.

People like him and the Novara crew are not to be trusted.

I do not appreciate it when personal spite being directed at other comrades, such as Bastani. Either Bastani will be born out, or he will not. Time will tell. But such dogmatism , and political sectarianism is not helpful in advancing the cause of socialism. I personally feel that parts of Marx's social analysis would be anachronistic , as we are now living in a post-industrial age, in which the proletariat largely doesn't exist in the classic Marxist sense of the term. Therefore , we mustn't be stuck in the past, but rather update scientific socialism for the current digital age. And also even the Soviet Union gave credence to the idea of space colonization. So this theme is certainly not unique to Bastani, no matter how much the Communist Party of Great Britain may want to try to strawman his ideas, as they did in their Morning Star article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_(novel) , https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/soviet-space-graphics , https://www.weaponews.com/weapons/65351671-the-soviet-program-of-research-and-exploration-of-venus.html , https://www.csmonitor.com/1983/1222/122224.html , https://www.rbth.com/history/332103-soviet-space-colonization-sci-fil

[skinster]

I do not appreciate it when personal spite being directed at other comrades, such as Bastani.

He is not a comrade, he is a radlib grifter.

Either Bastani will be born out, or he will not. Time will tell. But such dogmatism , and political sectarianism is not helpful in advancing the cause of socialism.

This might be a point if you were referring to a socialist, but this guy couldn't even handle reformism in the form of social democracy and spent plenty of time dogpiling Corbyn like the rest.

Marx

You lot should maybe read Marx. Bastani clearly hasn't, as is clear by his silly idea in that book that you think will be a thing. Someone who has read Marx explains why Bastani is incorrect, here.

[Deutschmania]

Now you are resorting to arguing in bad faith, such as by using pejorative loaded language , such as the term radlib grifter . So in accordance with the advice given in the video below, I shall now disengage from you. Good bye.

[QatzelOk]

...Fuck Communism!!
Capitalism with some socialist checks/balances to prevent crony and exploitative Capitalism, is the future. Everything in moderation.

You actually still believe that mankind can coexist with capitalism? We have killed what percent of the world's species under our current system? Destroyed what percentage of the forests and fishing zones?

If you still believe "we can make capitalism work," then I don't think you're paying close enough attention.

Communism, alone, has failed in every single instance.

Communism has only "failed" to reward its obedient non-unionized workers with enough squeaky-toys to keep them destroying their own environment.

The lack of squeaky-toys means that capitalists can always bribe mercenaries to destroy any communist system that works.

Being an obedient lackey for capitalism... has all the dignity of being a show-dog who continues to strut onstage during a nuclear bombardment.

When it comes down to it, nearly everyone wants private control of the markets and not government control of markets.

Yes, and he also doesn't want McDonalds to put him out of business. Communism includes and often protects small businesses like noodle shops since the product they offer is non-essential. Essentials, on the other hand, need to be government controlled and equally distributed. Or else extinction.

[skinster]

Now you are resorting to arguing in bad faith, such as by using pejorative loaded language , such as the term radlib grifter . So in accordance with the advice given in the video below, I shall now disengage from you. Good bye.

I'm not arguing in bad faith. You posted the silly idea of 'Fully Automated Luxury Communism' promoted by the founder of Novara media, which is (rad)liberal bullshit, nothing more.

[QatzelOk]

The website "The Academy of Ideas" has a few articles on the subject of human submission (anthro-husbandry). Here is the first one that I read and really liked:

In the privacy of our minds many of us disagree with the ideologies, political agendas, and government mandates of our day, yet in public we comply. We do what we are told, say what is politically correct, and justify our hypocrisy by telling ourselves that we are powerless to change society, and so we might as well blend in with the crowd. In this video, we explain why publicly conforming to what we privately disagree with makes us complicit in tyranny, and why each of us has far more power to influence society than we have been led to believe.

According to the website, the human tendency to "go along" with powerful dictators and their tranparently false lies... leads to very bad outcomes.

Are we there yet?



The event above - where the entire political class in Canada is clapping for an ex-Nazi (along with V. Zelensky, a Jew clapping for a Ukrainian Nazi) might demonstrate just how bankrupt our selected (by money) leaders have become... at least partically because of their subservience to the rich and powerful dictators of capital.