Moscow-City - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By Kiroff
#1071180
I am sorry but I think these buildings will just be waiting to have airplanes crash in them. Even more so than former WTC buildings.

There's something about this futuristic totalitarian architecture that I find fundamentally unattractive.


WTC was a steel skyscraper, just like the Seven Sisters of Moscow(MGU, Hotel Ukraina, etc). Steel skyscrapers are cheaper and faster to build but don't last as long and can be destroyed by planes. These are made from monolith concrete, and monolith concrete doesn't like to fuck around. :knife:

Could you show where these structures are on a map of Moscow.


Right here(from space, google maps)

Most architects today have no brain and all deserve to be put into crazy houses.
If they are let loose, they will completely fuck up our city with fucking disgisting buildings.
I hate tall glass towers. They lack any sort of aesthetics or beauty. Architects are talentless and stupid.


It's the new movement. I bet some people in the past found the MGU building ugly and made by talentless people, but hey, it's a trend setter.
User avatar
By Vladimir
#1071761
How can you compare some hideous towers with MGU?
It doesn't take any talent or thought to put together some glass tower. Just mechanical work. There is no aesthetic vaulue here, it is just ugly, vulgar and hideous. Especially that DNA helix tower. You know, they want to have the city duma in it. And why on earth must the city duma sit inside a DNA helix??!!
And how can they be building this while other cities in Russia need so much money, with all the old and decayed buildings there! AND a lot of these builders are foreign contractros that are summoning money away from Russia.
I hope all people who are involved with this burn in hell and the devil rapes their souls >: :muha1: ))
User avatar
By Looter
#1071876
Why has Moscow prospered so since it lost its empire. When it was the Soviet Capital it has twice as many people in its country plus the Warsaw Pact. The Soviet Union had all power centralized, yet now the center is strong and the provinces suffer. Before the revolution Moscow was a provincial city whose largest buildings were Cathedrals, now it is the largest city in Europe and the most expensive city in the world?
If oil is the answer then first there is no oil near Moscow, second I live near to the oil sands yet not a single office tower has been built here since the destruction of the Soviet Union. Putin is God, Putin is the Savior.
User avatar
By Vladimir
#1071882
Moscow was so much better is soviet times
User avatar
By Vanasalus
#1071902
Why has Moscow prospered so since it lost its empire. When it was the Soviet Capital it has twice as many people in its country plus the Warsaw Pact. The Soviet Union had all power centralized, yet now the centre is strong and the provinces suffer. Before the revolution Moscow was a provincial city whose largest buildings were Cathedrals, now it is the largest city in Europe and the most expensive city in the world?
If oil is the answer then first there is no oil near Moscow, second I live near to the oil sands yet not a single office tower has been built here since the destruction of the Soviet Union. Putin is God, Putin is the Savior.



Good points. It is perfectly normal to hear about esthetic critics. There are cities around the globe, where skyscrapers are quite esthetic parts for the city panorama. Some places, not.

However, the issue of Moscow is somehow beyond the esthetic. Moscow’s nowadays development is, apart form being artificially driven, it is like a cancer, absorbing necessary sources for the development of the rest of the country. Russia is a country, where personal GDP is less than 1/5th of the industrialized-western world, and yet the city of Moscow is the most expensive city in Europe (if not world). How?

The answer is quite simple and scary. 30-40% of governmental expenditures in a country ranging from Baltic to Pacific is spent only in Moscow. Moscow is basically sucking the life out of the rest of this wide country.

Returning back to original topic: the issue here is not the fancy constructional activities in Moscow or something else. The problem is these things are done in expense of the rest of Russia. This fancy city is rising on top of the misery of exclusive majority of Russians.
By Russkie
#1071971
It's amazing how we can keep a country together while spending nearly half the GDP in just one city.
By Shade2
#1072016
Oh look what nice buildings says this Russian citizen.
Image

Liocha spent four years in a Siberian prison for burglary. Paroled, with no money or prospects, he came to Moscow where he tries to stay warm in underground central heating tunnels, most of which have been sealed off for security reasons


The sight of the buildings is too much to comprehend to those children:

Image

Dima, 14, and Sascha, 12, fled a home in Nijninovgorod full of alcoholism and violence. They have lived on the streets of Moscow for three months, sleeping in parks, train stations and abandoned houses

Nothing like a snack during the sightseeing:
Image
Vladimir, who is mentally ill, and his mother Tonia at a Salvation Army food dispensary. They have been on the streets for six years, since their psychiatric hospice in Volgoda could no longer care for Vladimir due to lack of funds


http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoes ... _homeless/
By Russkie
#1072023
Shade2, what's the point? Go to Toronto or New York and you will find homeless kids too.
By Shade2
#1072064
Shade2, what's the point? Go to Toronto or New York and you will find homeless kids too.

Toronto and New York are cities of the most developed and rich countries in the world. Russia is a third world country that would be wise to spend its money on solving its problems, instead of shiny towers for the rulling elite. But of course such course of action is understandable knowing Russian culture.
By MatthewJ
#1072103
Russia is a third world country that would be wise to spend its money on solving its problems, instead of shiny towers for the ruling elite.


It would be wise for Russia to curb its extravagant military spending as well, but don't hold your breath.
By Russkie
#1072128
It would be wise for Russia to curb its extravagant military spending as well, but don't hold your breath.

What the fuck are you talking about? Russia's military is actually underfunded, considering its land mass, it requires a large military, and it traditionally has always had a large military.
By MatthewJ
#1072153
Russia's military is actually underfunded


It depends what part you are talking about. You are thinking about Russia's conventional forces, I am thinking about the Strategic Rocket Forces, ballistic missile submarines and air force. Russian spending is extravagent when you consider the country is pretty much third world for the majority.

http://warfare.ru/

However spend some time here and you wiull see that their military is anything but.
User avatar
By danholo
#1072196
Maybe they could put some money into renovating the rundown piece of crap then trying to hide it under some fancy materialistic (albeit cool) skyscrapers.

Ah, well, maybe it will bring in more moolah for people to be actually interested in taking care of their surroundings.
User avatar
By Kiroff
#1072310
Maybe they could put some money into renovating the rundown piece of crap then trying to hide it under some fancy materialistic (albeit cool) skyscrapers.


What the hell are you talking about? Don't post while you are taking pain medication.

Toronto and New York are cities of the most developed and rich countries in the world. Russia is a third world country that would be wise to spend its money on solving its problems, instead of shiny towers for the rulling elite. But of course such course of action is understandable knowing Russian culture.


Of course, why spend money on investment projects for business and industry that will take away the dependence of oil while we could have a huge welfare state that self-destructs when oil prices fall! Only Poles could think of that!

"Or we could take the traditional, Western press style explanation. As the super-rich oligarchs spend $15 million of their stolen oil money on a bottle on special diamond-infused champagne, just down the road, Valentina, 56, has to eat her own head just to survive"

It doesn't take any talent or thought to put together some glass tower. Just mechanical work. There is no aesthetic vaulue here, it is just ugly, vulgar and hideous. Especially that DNA helix tower. You know, they want to have the city duma in it. And why on earth must the city duma sit inside a DNA helix??!!


The DNA helix is the Wedding Palace(Dvorec Brakosochetaniya). The Moscow city duma is the M-shaped building:

Image

With red lighting. :)

Looter, Vanalasus:
Why has Moscow prospered so since it lost its empire. When it was the Soviet Capital it has twice as many people in its country plus the Warsaw Pact. The Soviet Union had all power centralized, yet now the centre is strong and the provinces suffer. Before the revolution Moscow was a provincial city whose largest buildings were Cathedrals, now it is the largest city in Europe and the most expensive city in the world?
If oil is the answer then first there is no oil near Moscow, second I live near to the oil sands yet not a single office tower has been built here since the destruction of the Soviet Union. Putin is God, Putin is the Savior.


Moscow had a good mayor(Luzhkov) from the start, who could manage the city well, through the difficult years of the 90's. He even posed a threat to Yeltsyn's power in 1994, who tried to remove him ever since. Moscow is really not that expensive a city, sure, more expensive than the regions, but it is only considered expensive for foreigners. A place where you can get a cup of tea or a meat bun in its center(Kitay-Gorod/Kremlin) for 20 cents is not expensive. However, if you go in the place next to it, which is dark inside with music playing...

Oh, and Moscow only constitutes for 15% of Russia's total GDP.

And here are some real stats on expenditures:

Moscow budget for 2006:

Accepted in november 2005
expenditures - 561,2млрд р. (~$20,5bln)
revenue - 504,6млрд р. (~$18,4bln)

reaccepted in July 2006
expenditures - 704,0млрд р. (~$25,7bln)
revenue - 614,4млрд р. (~$22,4bln)

Russia's total budget for next year is $251 billion(or something like that) with estimated GDP growth rate at 6.9%.

2007 will also be the year when business goes to the regions, as Moscow is overdeveloped, and total small business credits have quadrupled in volume since last year. Barnaul, Novosibirsk, Chelyabinsk, Yekaterinburg, and St. Petersburg to name a few are already building their own "city"'s like "Moscow City", though not as extravagant. Here's Ekaterinburg City for example:

Image

My point is that while Moscow seems posh, the regions are rising, though not as quickly.

Basically:

Are there problems? Yes
Is it getting better? Yes
Is it getting worse? No
Are there problems in any other country of the world? Yes

On Russia in total:

Code: Select alldistribution of income(from gks.ru national bureau of statistics)
                  2002  2003  2004  2005   
less than 1500.0   17.3   9.9   6.2   3.2

1500.1- 2500.0   23.0   17.5   13.2   8.9

2500.1-3500.0   18.1   16.7   14.4   11.5

3500.1-4500.0   12.6   13.4   12.8   11.5

4500.1-6000.0   11.8   14.3   15.0   15.0

6000.1-8000.0   8.2   11.4   13.4   14.9

8000.1-12000.0   6.1   10.2   13.7   17.3

over 12000.0   2.9   6.6   11.3   17.7


Code: Select allAverage monthly wage:
                 2005                 2006
               2Q      3Q     4Q     1Q      2Q
US dollars   283,8   291,0   302,3   333,7   357,5


Oh, and those buildings are built by and for private companies(except Moscow City Hall), not the Federal or City budget. :)
By Shade2
#1072344
Oh, and those buildings are built by and for private companies(except Moscow City Hall), not the Federal or City budget.

Why are they building those buildings instead of paying their huge debts ? And we all know how "private" those companies are.

Of course, why spend money on investment projects for business and industry that will take away the dependence of oil while we could have a huge welfare state that self-destructs when oil prices fall!

Who said anything about welfare state ? That money could be used to develop Russian economy rather then having shiny towers.

As the super-rich oligarchs spend $15 million of their stolen oil money on a bottle on special diamond-infused champagne, just down the road, Valentina, 56, has to eat her own head just to survive

Isn't this the case anyway in Russia ?


With red lighting. Smile

Why do they want to have something looking like a giant brothel ?






. Here's Ekaterinburg City for example:

How tasteless.


Are there problems? Yes
Is it getting better? Yes
Is it getting worse? No
Are there problems in any other country of the world? Yes

Countries that face similiar problems as Russia are located in Subsharan Africa. Somehow I fail how growing corruption, dictatorship and pandemic in Russia makes the situation "getting better". And frankly saying Russia's problems are of the category that are the most tragic in the world.


Btw Kiroff-you live in Russia ?


distribution of income(from gks.ru national bureau of statistics)

I am always sceptical towards data produced in dictatorships.
User avatar
By dannymu
#1072347
Btw Kiroff-you live in Russia ?

No. He escaped to rich, free, developed and civilised America.
By Shade2
#1072350
No. He escaped to rich, free, developed and civilised America.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It is always the case with those poser pseudo-Russian nationalists wannabes.
Is there anyone actually posting from Eastern Europe here besides me ? :D
Last edited by Shade2 on 11 Dec 2006 21:06, edited 1 time in total.
By Shade2
#1072354

Are you saying that Russia is a barbaric country dannymu?

It certainly doesn't fulfill the norms we believe to be the signs of civilised country. For example the state versus private property.
User avatar
By dannymu
#1072358

Are you saying that Russia is a barbaric country dannymu?

No. I'm sure the US is a much better place to live than Russia.

Is there anyone actually posting from Eastern Europe here besides me ?

I think kami posts from somewhere in Eastern Europe but am not sure.
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