Demo London...19th July...Supporting the Palestinians - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14439051
While I tend to agree with your sentiment Goldberk, the situation on the ground is that all of the people doing it do believe that.

The stark reality is that we can't make the Israelis leave, and we can't just off the Palestinians either.

The only viable option that doesn't end with ethnic cleansing is a two state solution and that is going to be very difficult to achieve.

Regardless of which side you believe to be more justified or moral, the only way this wont end in tears is if the two sides work it out between each other and accept that their both going to be staying.
#14439081
jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:All you have to do is look at the West-Bank. They've tried peace with Israel yet they continue to have their lands poached by illegal settlers acting under the protection of the IDF. Surely this answers any query you must have about the situation.


And all you have to do is look at Gaza, how Israel left it and how Hamas won't stop fighting Israel anyway. The same could be said about Lebanon for that matter, Israel also left and Hezbollah also won't stop fighting Israel anyway.

The lesson of the day is that neither Palestine nor Israel are monolithic entities and both have their share of extremists that need to be stopped.
#14439156
The Israelis didn't leave Gaza. They blockaded it and often subject its inhabitants to extraordinary cruelty such as shutting off water and power supplies as well as regularly bombing it's infrastructure. How would you feel being born into the Gaza strip knowing yo will probably never be allowed leave? The Gaza Strip operates pretty much like a Chilean jail. Where armed guards forever patrol the perimeter but rarely venture inside unless their going batons drawn, or in the Israeli case guns blazing.
The simple facts are that their is no Palestinian nation in Israel's long term plans. They are biding their time waiting for the right excuse to once again try to eradicate the Palestinian peoples with the use of force. Until then their just going to keep dehumanising them.
#14439184
I know two things for sure:

1) Israel will not leave Palestine land just because some people protest about it.
Israel will never leave. It's their homeland where they belong (in their belief).

2) Israel will not leave Gaza alone unless Palestinians or Hamas make peace negotiation with Israel.
Everything that Israel does (e.g. blockade, military strike) has to do with protecting Israeli citizens from Hamas' threat.
The source of all problem is Hamas. If Hamas and Palestinians allow Israel to exist in peace, Israel wouldn't bother them any more.

You can't possibly expect Israel to leave their homeland or not defend themselves from Hamas' attack.
It's not something to be debated about (for them) because they are doing this for their survival.
Therefore, your protest would have little or no meaning to Israel.

It doesn't matter what outsiders think about this issue. Israel is determined to exist and Palestinians are determined to get rid of Israel.
Israel chooses peace, Palestinians choose the land (not peace).

Personally, I choose peace over land. So, Israel should exist in peace and Palestinians should live peacefully with Israel.
Last edited by shmatthew on 17 Jul 2014 18:52, edited 1 time in total.
#14439193
jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:The Israelis didn't leave Gaza. They blockaded it and often subject its inhabitants to extraordinary cruelty such as shutting off water and power supplies as well as regularly bombing it's infrastructure. How would you feel being born into the Gaza strip knowing yo will probably never be allowed leave? The Gaza Strip operates pretty much like a Chilean jail. Where armed guards forever patrol the perimeter but rarely venture inside unless their going batons drawn, or in the Israeli case guns blazing.
The simple facts are that their is no Palestinian nation in Israel's long term plans. They are biding their time waiting for the right excuse to once again try to eradicate the Palestinian peoples with the use of force. Until then their just going to keep dehumanising them.


Oh but the Gazans could actually leave by crossing into Egypt, at least until the toppling of the Muslim Brotherhood.

In any event, it's not like Israelis can cross into Lebanon or Syria and viceversa. Why would Gazans get such a privilege, particularly considering the above? Shouldn't Hamas try to get along with Israel so the border could operate normally?
#14439300
Thursday 17 July 2014 Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday instructed the military to begin a ground offensive in Gaza, an official statement from his office said. “The prime minister and defence minister have instructed the IDF to begin a ground operation tonight in order to hit the terror tunnels from Gaza into Israel,” the statement said. Reuters witnesses and Gaza residents reported heavy artillery and naval shelling along the Gaza border.
Here we go again.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101838647#.

MOD EDIT: Any time you quote a news article, please link to it.
#14439344
mikema63 wrote:While I tend to agree with your sentiment Goldberk, the situation on the ground is that all of the people doing it do believe that.

The stark reality is that we can't make the Israelis leave, and we can't just off the Palestinians either.

The only viable option that doesn't end with ethnic cleansing is a two state solution and that is going to be very difficult to achieve.

Regardless of which side you believe to be more justified or moral, the only way this wont end in tears is if the two sides work it out between each other and accept that their both going to be staying.

Pretty much this.

The situation opens up the contradictions in the soft-liberal perspective of world events, i.e. religious freedom and 'pacifism'. A world which contains both of these and Israelis and Palestinians can not exist.
#14439920
Saturday morning,the day of the demo. The weather doesn't look too bright, hope the rain holds off till after the demo. The organisers expect a minimum of ten thousand although rain puts off the families from attending.

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