[Oxymoron]

hmmmm....that's much better, he should just bow down to his masters in eternal servitude

What masters? Should I protest the rain too because I dont like to get wet? Certain things are beyond your control, so accept it and live a happy life.

[Bounce Widdit]

What masters? Should I protest the rain too because I dont like to get wet? Certain things are beyond your control, so accept it and live a happy life.

the masters that are apparently acting in his nations 'best interests'

unlike the rain, social/political ills are not beyond our control. if they are created by an aggregate of individuals, an aggregate of individuals change them.

"where there's a will, and there's always a fackin will"

or we could just say its impossible and wander around in indifferent bliss. for this i recommend heroin

[Oxymoron]

the masters that are apparently acting in his nations 'best interests'

The masters that you democratically elect .

unlike the rain, social/political ills are not beyond our control. if they are created by an aggregate of individuals, an aggregate of individuals change them.

Oh god, what social and political ills are so bad that you have to lose sleep over? If you want change particapate in politics, vote, organize no need to be upset or ill about it.

"where there's a will, and there's always a fackin will"

or we could just say its impossible and wander around in indifferent bliss. for this i recommend heroin

Or oyu can waste your life for the "cause" what ever it is at different times in your life.

[Bounce Widdit]

The masters that you democratically elect

since when was gordon brown democratically elected?

If you want change particapate in politics, vote, organize

exactly what im advocating

no need to be upset or ill about it.

you never get upset over political/ social injustice? do you always treat such things a stoic shrug? who said anything about getting ill or losing sleep?

Or oyu can waste your life for the "cause" what ever it is at different times in your life.

if you feel passionately about something, be it a political cause, art, or science, dedicating your life to it is hardly a 'waste'. not doing so is.

[Oxymoron]

who said anything about getting ill or losing sleep?

Sloop:

My frustration at being unable to influence this stupidity in any way is almost unbearable.

you feel passionately about something, be it a political cause, art, or science, dedicating your life to it is hardly a 'waste'. not doing so is

If you think that Protesting foriegn policy or Israels actions warrants dedicating your life to, then no one can help you.

[Bounce Widdit]

Okay, if you feel a carefree attitude is what's necessary when faced with political/social injustice, what compels you to post this?

Today Israel faces its greatest challenge to her survival. Both at home with Hamas and Hezbollah trying to push the Jewish people into the Sea, and abroad with Iran developing Nuclear weapons and calling for Israel to be wiped of the map. Yet the greatest threat is Global anti semitism, which gives those terrorist players Hamas,Hezbollah and Terhan a free pass, while focusing its wrath against the small Jewish state. So show your solidarity with Israel a fellow free state which is fighting for its surivival. You can do so by donating to charities, writing letters of support, and if possible actively demostrating to show support for human dignity and freedom.

If you think that Protesting foriegn policy or Israels actions warrants dedicating your life to, then no one can help you.

firstly, its not just about your little part of the world.

secondly, if find it odd that the 'democratically elected leaders' who you seem to have so much faith in also dedicated their lives to political activity.

in fact more or less everything being discussed on this message, on which you have a mind-blowingly high number of posts, is the product of dedicated political activity. and yet you consider it a waste?

or is it just the political activity that is opposition to your perspective that you have a problem with? is this really a tenable basis on which to reject political activity as a whole?

[Oxymoron]

Okay, if you feel a carefree attitude is what's necessary when faced with political/social injustice, what compels you to post this?

I never said be detached or care free, I said dont let it run your life. There is more to life then causes, and fighting the good fight.

Today Israel faces its greatest challenge to her survival. Both at home with Hamas and Hezbollah trying to push the Jewish people into the Sea, and abroad with Iran developing Nuclear weapons and calling for Israel to be wiped of the map. Yet the greatest threat is Global anti semitism, which gives those terrorist players Hamas,Hezbollah and Terhan a free pass, while focusing its wrath against the small Jewish state. So show your solidarity with Israel a fellow free state which is fighting for its surivival. You can do so by donating to charities, writing letters of support, and if possible actively demostrating to show support for human dignity and freedom.

If you think that Protesting foriegn policy or Israels actions warrants dedicating your life to, then no one can help you.

firstly, its not just about your little part of the world.

Meaning?

secondly, if find it odd that the 'democratically elected leaders' who you seem to have so much faith in also dedicated their lives to political activity.

Dedication and obsession are different.

in fact more or less everything being discussed on this message, on which you have a mind-blowingly high number of posts, is the product of dedicated political activity. and yet you consider it a waste?

Not at all, its not waste and it doesnt run my life either.

or is it just the political activity that is opposition to your perspective that you have a problem with? is this really a tenable basis on which to reject political activity as a whole?

Not at all I was just commenting that Sloop is taking things to seriously and should lighten up a bit.

[sploop!]

If you think that Protesting foriegn policy or Israels actions warrants dedicating your life to, then no one can help you.

Interestingly, this gets to the root of the OP. Obviously, I don't dedicate my life to it, but I do put a reasonable amount of my energy into protesting at Israeli action here, and I have my personal boycott of Israel to look after. But my question was: Is there more I can do that might be effective in any way?

Some have suggested that public protect is a suitable action, and I do that when I can; and I try my best to get to the 'truth' of the matter and pass that on, although I fear that the days when there was ever a single truth about anything that we could all agree on is long gone, and I no longer know what the truth is any more myself, although I recognise lies when I see them - and there have been lots of lies in recent days.

Your suggestion, Oxymoron, seems to be that I (and by extension, we) should abandon any passion for changing the things I believe need to be changed, that I should give up searching for any sort of justice that is beyond my immediate and limited control, and I should get behind my country, whatever it believes (presumably because what the government believes is, by definition, 'in the country's best interests' as you put it, and anything I believe which is different, is not). In other words, give up.

Then there's Bounce Widdit, with an entirely different and more hopeful view. I admire that hopefulness and would love to recapture it - I'm sure I once believed that change is possible, and I would dearly like to be able to believe that again, one day.

Maybe Israeli foreign policy is cast in stone. Maybe death and destruction is almost all we are going to see coming from Israel for ever amen. I hope not. But I suspect comparing Israeli cruelty to the rain is a bit much...

Not at all I was just commenting that Sloop is taking things to seriously and should lighten up a bit.

I wish I could. But I find myself really upset by this fucking mess.

[Decky]

In Bradford, where I live theirs huge amounts of anti Israeli graffiti being put up. When the council wash it off it appears again over night. It's strange that if graffiti of obscenity's or huge pictures of penises are sprayed on walls the council doesn't care but the second someone sprays "free Gaza" tax payers money is used to get rid of it.

Their are also collections for Gaza in most take always and posters inviting people to join the Arab army with a telephone number pooping up everywhere. It must have been like this when the international brigade went to fight Franco.

[Oxymoron]

anti Israeli

Swasticas?

[Bounce Widdit]

Swasticas?

comedy gold from oxymoron

[Decky]

anti Israeli

"Free Gaza"

"Free Gaza strip now"

etc.

I'm very proud that I haven't seen any anti Semitic graffiti yet. Mindless racism would bring us down to Israels standards.

[Dave]

Bradford seems to be 15.6% Pakistani, so this is understandable. Foreigners within Britain can be expected to support the Palestinian cause, but Britons who support it (or the Israeli cause) are bizarre.

[sploop!]

^ How so? Most 'foreigners' within Britain are British, so I don't see why their perspective should be any different to mine. I don't see what is so bizarre about being interested in events, and taking sides in a cause, which may indirectly have a significant impact on the UK.

[Leo2]

Actually, I think a concern with justice for those he will never know is the mark of an intelligent and civilised man. Without such concerns, we would still be at the most basic tribal stages of society. Social justice is merely a form of enlightened self-interest, but nonetheless essential for any society. If people are not suffering from hunger, exposure, and having their legitimate concerns ignored, they are much less likely to wreak what violence they can upon us. Translated into basics, that means we can walk to the bus stop without fear of being knocked on the head, knifed, or shot, for the few dollars in our pockets.

[Oxymoron]

Translated into basics, that means we can walk to the bus stop without fear of being knocked on the head, knifed, or shot, for the few dollars in our pockets.

A gun works much better, then relying on other peoples behaviors.

[Dave]

^ How so? Most 'foreigners' within Britain are British, so I don't see why their perspective should be any different to mine. I don't see what is so bizarre about being interested in events, and taking sides in a cause, which may indirectly have a significant impact on the UK.

Some are, some aren't. Due to multiculturalism and obvious group loyalty many are not "really" British. There is nothing bizarre about being interested in events. There is something bizarre about being passionately committed to a people and a cause not related to any of your own issues, especially whem said people and cause is of questionable virtue to begin with aside from the underdog factor. There are plenty of serious problems right at home in your own nation deserving of very serious attention. For instance, the UK has one of the highest rates of child poverty in the Western world. This should be an issue of much more importance to any Briton than the admittedly sad plight of the Palestinian people.

Actually, I think a concern with justice for those he will never know is the mark of an intelligent and civilised man. Without such concerns, we would still be at the most basic tribal stages of society. Social justice is merely a form of enlightened self-interest, but nonetheless essential for any society. If people are not suffering from hunger, exposure, and having their legitimate concerns ignored, they are much less likely to wreak what violence they can upon us. Translated into basics, that means we can walk to the bus stop without fear of being knocked on the head, knifed, or shot, for the few dollars in our pockets.

I don't think I've ever read another post which more clearly expresses how left-liberalism is a form of status signaling and institutionalized weakness. Here you have expressed two opinions:
[1]That your political opinions are enlightened and civilized, as opposed to mean old barbarians like me
[2]That you fear that the indigent will harm if their demands are not caved into, in other words the institutionalization of fear and weakness

[sploop!]

Dave: There are plenty of serious problems right at home... For instance, the UK has one of the highest rates of child poverty in the Western world.

Absolutely correct.The UK has some horrible social problems, and I spend my working week trying to help people who suffer from them. I don't feel any particular need to talk about it here, though - probably because actually doing something in this area feeds that particular need for me. Does that sound odd? Maybe it does...

I need to think about the other things you said. I don't know why Palestine seems especially important to me. Maybe it's that hidden European anti-semitism...

[Dave]

Absolutely correct.The UK has some horrible social problems, and I spend my working week trying to help people who suffer from them. I don't feel any particular need to talk about it here, though - probably because actually doing something in this area feeds that particular need for me. Does that sound odd? Maybe it does...

Not necessarily--you are already doing your part.

I need to think about the other things you said. I don't know why Palestine seems especially important to me. Maybe it's that hidden European anti-semitism...

[1]The issue is very prominent in the media
[2]The Palestinians are underdogs, and people sympathize with underdogs
[3]Israel is hypocritical on this issue if you think in universalist terms (I do not)
[4]Jews claim to be the chosen people and are very clannish, both of which annoy people

[Tailz]

"Free Gaza"

"Free Gaza strip now"

Slogans like "Free Gaza" and other similar comments are not anti-Israeli. If the comments were "Death to Israel" then I would agree that those are anti-israeli slogans.