[War Angel]

Bounce Widdit, if you're so supportive of the Arab cause, why don't you fight for it, for real? Not stupid, pointless demonstrations thousands of kilometers away, but REAL assistance - right here, where it all happens.

What say you?

[Bounce Widdit]

What on earth are you harping on about? What is the "arab cause"?

whatever it is, its not the reason i'll be demonstrating

[War Angel]

* An immediate end to Israel's military assault on Gaza
* An immediate end to the blockade and siege on Gaza
* An end to Israel's violations of international law
* An end to Israeli occupation

Is this is not what you support\want? Why aren't you doing anything REAL about it, then?

Come here and fight with the Palestinian Arabs. End Israel. Don't run about, dance and whistle - stand behind what you believe in, and fight.

[Bounce Widdit]

I don't want an end to Israel

You're not very good at this are you?

[War Angel]

You wrote 'end Israel's occupation', and I assume that like the Palestinian, you mean all land occupied by Israel.

Now, stop evading - whatcha gonna 'bout it any of this?

You're not very good at this are you?

Hello, mister newbie-who-just-came-here-and-starts-lecturing-an-Israeli-who's-been-here-for-years! Got any other gems for us, love?

[Bounce Widdit]

You wrote 'end Israel's occupation', and I assume that like the Palestinian, you mean all land occupied by Israel.

no, at the top of my first post i said this was from Palestinian Solidarity Campaign.

second, end Israel's occupation does not equate with end Israel - in the same way ending a US occupation of Iraq does not mean an end to the US itself

elsewhere on this forum, i advocate a one state solution to the palestine-israel conflict which is entirely consistent my protest

third, you whole accusation rests on a self-conscious assumption - an accusation i earlier claimed was wrong, and at your behest, have now demonstrated is wrong

on the basis of this three part folly, i re-assert: you are not very good at this, are you?

[Noelnada]

Now, stop evading - whatcha gonna 'bout it any of this?

Well, you know we aren't going to do much about it, except remembering our governments that they have to be more tough and impartial on the matter. Maybe that if Israeli begin to take the international opinion in considerations, they will begin to take another approach to solve the conflict as well.

One good thing to start with, would be for the Israel government to recognize it was wrong to reject the democratic outcome of the last Palestinian elections.

In the meanwhile, we will boycott your kösher products, ha wait, we didn't buy any already

[War Angel]

second, end Israel's occupation does not equate with end Israel - in the same way ending a US occupation of Iraq does not mean an end to the US itself

Where is Iraq, and where's the USA? 'End the Israeli occupation' means, no more Israeli presence in the Middle East - and since there's no Israel else-where in the world, it essentially means 'end Israel'. The Palestinians get it, we get it - why can't you?

elsewhere on this forum, i advocate a one state solution to the palestine-israel conflict which is entirely consistent my protest

With an Arab, Muslim majority - again, no more Israel.

third, you whole accusation rests on a self-conscious assumption - an accusation i earlier claimed was wrong, and at your behest, have now demonstrated is wrong

You have demonstrated nothing but your use of baffling syntax for no apparent reason.

on the basis of this three part folly, i re-assert: you are not very good at this, are you?

I'm the absolute worst, but you still haven't said why you're not doing anything of substance to further your cause, instead of silly demonstrations. Wanna end our occupation? Come here and try.

In the meanwhile, we will boycott your kösher products, ha wait, we didn't buy any already

Oh, wonderful - you've brought religion into this. What's 'kosher', exactly, about Intel's micro-chips? It's not even food...

[Noelnada]

Oh, wonderful - you've brought religion into this. What's 'kosher', exactly, about Intel's micro-chips? It's not even food...

We can't boycott microchips as far as i know, it's not really an Israeli product anyway...
And i boycott Kösher pizzas if i want, has nothing to do with religion, rather with taste

[Bounce Widdit]

I'm the absolute worst, but you still haven't said why you're not doing anything of substance to further your cause, instead of silly demonstrations. Wanna end our occupation? Come here and try.

in my opinion, demonstration is an act of substance...

as for your other points,

first, there is widespread opposition to 'israeli occupation' as it is commonly known without an end to the 'israeli state'... it is what both a two state and one state solution is predicated on....

your second point can logically hold true only if israel is, by definition, a state for jewish people alone, or at least in majority. if it is, your problem with the one state solution is purely one of definition; hell of a reason to oppose it

third point, how can you deny your assumption wasn't wrong... you assumed i wanted an end to israel, i asserted that i did not. and yet your assumption still stands true? is there any point in even arguing with you if it amounts to you saying something, sticking your fingers in your ears, and going 'blah blah blah'?

your whole beef with me rests on whether i want an end to israel. seeing as i don't, your accusations and demands of 'an answer' (which i have given you now anyway, not that it will shut you up) are irrelevant

[War Angel]

in my opinion, demonstration is an act of substance...

Meh. Just kids havin' a ball.

your second point can logically hold true only if israel is, by definition, a state for jewish people alone, or at least in majority. if it is, your problem with the one state solution is purely one of definition; hell of a reason to oppose it

Well, obviously, if 'Israel' is not 'Israel', then... well, it's just another Arab country, one of over two dozens, and my people still have no home. So, yeah, an end to Israel still. Saying 'one country for two peoples' is the same as saying 'No country for the Jewish people'.

first, there is widespread opposition to 'israeli occupation' as it is commonly known without an end to the 'israeli state'

Not on the Palestinian side, no. They want everything, and rightfully so, in their eyes. They don't want us here.

hird point, how can you deny your assumption wasn't wrong... you assumed i wanted an end to israel, i asserted that i did not. and yet your assumption still stands true? is there any point in even arguing with you if it amounts to you saying something, sticking your fingers in your ears, and going 'blah blah blah'?

I am fully familiar with all the rhetorics surrounding this matter. "I don't hate Jews, I just don't think they should have a state", "I'm not against a Jewish state, I just think they need to share it with twice\three times as many Arabs", etc etc... all mean, essentially, the same thing. Dance around it all you like.

your whole beef with me rests on whether i want an end to israel.

I've no beef with you. You do not interest me. I do, however, have some reservation against people who support my enemy, who wishes to exterminate me. Still, as long as it's not active support ('aid', money transactions, coming here to fight, etc), I don't care. It doesn't cost lives.

seeing as i don't, your accusations and demands of 'an answer' (which i have given you now anyway, not that it will shut you up) are irrelevant

I just wanted to know why you haven't considered coming here to assist your Palestinian buddies... something which I've still received no answer to. No matter, though... if you're European, I wouldn't really expect you to do much of anything, except bitch an' moan.

[Red Rebel]

It doesn't concern my country. We're involved only because jews are politically influential here. None the less, I remain baffled by Westerners who obsess over this. Our people are not involved.

Depends on who you associate yourself with. If you are a nationalist and associate youself as *insert your country here* it probably doesn't affect you unless your in the Middle East. If associate yourself as a Jew/Muslim your probably opinionated on the subject. Myself I assoicate with my class; therefore, I am affected when a couple hundred Israelis and Palestinians die because their leaders can't fucking share.

[Dave]

Like I said, I'm not a jew or arab. I associate myself with my tribe, which is the default position of humanity. You associate yourself with an ephemeral "class", which accounts for your bizarre emotions on this subject and explains why you are a subversive and potential traitor to your nation.

[redcarpet]

Even though I'm a UK citizen and member of the Stop the War Coalition and Pal. Sol. grp I would refuse to go to these demos if in the UK. Gordon Brown is not a democrat. New Labout is very autocratic; they ALREADY KNOW Israels' occupation is opposed by most Western populations. That's WHY the official position is that Israel must withdraw to the pre-1967 border & Tel Aviv is Israel's capital.

Gordon Brown isn't exactly going to cut off aid to Israel in response to street demos.You're wasting time.

[War Angel]

therefore, I am affected when a couple hundred Israelis and Palestinians die because their leaders can't fucking share.

Our leaders? We elected them, they work for us. WE are the ones who have to deal with whatever happens, so we're the ones making the shots.

That's WHY the official position is that Israel must withdraw to the pre-1967 border & Tel Aviv is Israel's capital.

Oh? Whose 'official position' is that?

[Sephardi]

How stupid can people be that they dont realize when they send money to Palestinians, Hamas gets it, and puts it into making bombs. Something I also realize, and everybody probably knew this already, Pofo has the most people against Israel and the most Communists out of all other websites.

[redcarpet]

Pofo has the most people against Israel and the most Communists out of all other websites

Oh I wouldn't say that. More like Left & Right are even in numbers here but the Lefties post more topics and replies than the Righties.

[Nets]

That's WHY the official position is that Israel must withdraw to the pre-1967 border

It's a nit-picky point, but technically the 1949 lines aren't a border, the Arabs insisted in the 49 arminstice agreements that the cease fire lines in those agreements in no way constituted legal borders. I support an agreement more or less along the 49 lines, but I get annoyed when they are called borders, the Arab states had a chance to make those the borders and they adamantly refused.

[redcarpet]

those agreements in no way constituted legal borders

US resolutions passed since the 67 war make them legal & binding borders. The UN SC is the highest legal body, alongside the ICJ. Israel is obliged to withdraw to the pre-67 borders as succeeding resolutions specify.

[Dave]

Who cares about the UN?