[mikema63]

Wait for him to log in, as far as I've seen he never fails to respond so be patient.

[Eran]

Thank you mike. I apologise for the delay.

SecretSquirrel, I frankly don't understand why you feel you have a winning argument here. I could respond and say that, under the circumstances you describe, the doctor would be "entitled", though probably not "obligated" to proceed with the procedure.

Being entitled to act in a certain way is, of course, is very far from being right to do so. So we can identify a situation in which common decency and ethics compel us to declare a technically just act to be morally reprehensible.

In my reply, I tried to give a few examples that do not involve the inalienability of self-ownership, but which also present a tension between morality (intuitively understood) and justice (formally and rigidly enforced).


I should make clear, at this point, that, contrary to how my position in this conversation may appear, I am (intuitively) leaning towards SecretSquirrel's non-alienability doctrine. By playing devil's advocate I am hoping to identify persuasive justification to the non-alienability position. So far, such justification seems to have alluded both SecretSquirrel and myself.

Once significant problem is the lack of a clear line separating full-fledged, lifetime, irrevocable, master-can-do-anything (but voluntary) slavery from very benign instances in which people pragmatically accept limited-duration and limited-scope (yet still enforceable) restraints on their own self-control.

To give a trivial example, consider a person riding a bus. The bus line's rules stipulate that passengers may only leave the bus in designated stations. The bus is stopped at a red light, not a designated station. A passenger urgently wishes to leave the bus, and asks the bus driver to open the door. Can the bus driver justly refuse? By refusing, the bus driver effectively uses force to restrain and limit the full self-ownership (including freedom to travel) normally enjoyed by the passenger.

If you think you can draw a line between full slavery and being detained for a few minutes on a bus, please let me know how.

[mum]

I would like to hear a response to your question Eran, if anyone has one...