Gun regulations and libertarianism - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Classical liberalism. The individual before the state, non-interventionist, free-market based society.
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#14902634
Sivad wrote:Guevara won the war at Santa Clara with 340 men. He was up against a few thousand men with armor and artillery. After the defeat at Santa Clara Batista fled the country and the Army surrendered.


I comcede the argument.

Obviously, you are correct that the Castro regime won the hearts and minds of the Cuban people, and they support Castro’s government against even overwhelming odds.

You are correct when you claim that the Cuban people and the Cuban government are on the same side and mutually supoort each other.
#14902656
Zamuel wrote:Sorry, no. Insurgencies are about bleeding your enemy. If they can do enough of this, they will gain firepower and acquire force multipliers. When the balance tips in their favor they can win.


Insurgencies are about breaking the political support of the established power, not military victory. Even in all out civil wars superior force doesn't guarantee victory.

I can't think of one insurgency that WON while their adversary retained superior, effective, firepower ... can you?


Yeah, M-26-7.

Hearts and minds do translate into firepower and are a significant force multiplier ... that's how Castro took Cuba.


That's not how Castro took Cuba.
#14902665
By that logic there are no oppressed majorities anywhere in the world. Did Saddam Hussein have the love and support of his people or did he maintain power through fear and force?
#14902684
Sivad wrote:Guevera won the war at Santa Clara with 340 men. He was up against a few thousand men with armor and artillery. After the defeat at Santa Clara Batista fled the country and the Army surrendered.


As I think you already admitted, Batista's army refused to fight. That sort of limited their firepower ... Fidel fielded a stronger and more motivated force. In the end Batista had no firepower at his disposal at all. Castro did not win with inferior firepower, he dominated, the dictator fled.

It's notable that Batista was hated and despised by the Cuban population long before Castro landed. Castro's problem (once he reached the mountains with 12 men) was where to put and what to do with the volunteers who flocked to him in droves ... Initially he turned away those who didn't have their own guns and ammo. (he needed firepower, not sentiment).

A much better example of what happens to an insurgency with inferior firepower is the "Bay of Pigs."

Zam
#14902702
Sivad wrote:By that logic there are no oppressed majorities anywhere in the world. Did Saddam Hussein have the love and support of his people or did he maintain power through fear and force?


So what are you saying? That a popular insurgency all by itself is not enough to guarantee a victory against a dictatorship?
#14902719
Pants-of-dog wrote:So what are you saying? That a popular insurgency all by itself is not enough to guarantee a victory against a dictatorship?


Depends on the situation, but that's not my point. What I'm saying is that there are a lot of possible reasons for why an oppressed majority doesn't revolt. You can't just assume that most people support the government simply because there isn't a popular uprising.
#14902840
I'm opposed to gun control. If the liberals really gave a shit about gun violence there a number of things they could be working on which would drastically reduce it that don't involve gun control. The fact that they're not doing those things tells me they don't give a shit about gun violence, they just want to take the guns.
#14902844
Gun rights aren't just about deterring tyranny, people have the right to an effective means of self defense. We all hear about the mass shootings but we never hear about the tens of thousands of home invasions, violent assaults, rapes, murders etc that guns prevent every year. Guns save more lives than they take.
#14902991
@Sivad

Sure, but you originally quoted a post of mine where I was specifically discussing gun control as a means of keeping the populace from holding the government accountable.

I think we agree that the more gun control, the harder it is for a populace to hold their government accountable through the threat of armed revolution.
#14903002
Pants-of-dog wrote:I think we agree that the more gun control, the harder it is for a populace to hold their government accountable through the threat of armed revolution.


Absolutely, I agree. If Cubans had guns and an independent spirit instilled from birth then Castro would've been a head on a pike long ago.
#14903701
More blatant bullshit from you. They don't have guns. Private ownership of firearms is heavily restricted in Cuba, and even if it wasn't, the vast majority of Cubans couldn't afford to buy a gun.

https://www.havanatimes.org/?p=92736

Number of Privately Owned Firearms
The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in Cuba is 220,000

Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) per 100 people in Cuba is 2.01

Number of Privately Owned Rifles
In Cuba, the number of rifles in civilian possession is reported to be 1,5773

Number of Privately Owned Shotguns
In Cuba, the number of shotguns in civilian possession is reported to be 43,7543

Number of Privately Owned Handguns
In Cuba, the number of handguns in civilian possession is reported to be 12,8193

Number of Privately Owned Firearms - World Ranking
In a 2007 comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Cuba ranked at No. 76

Rate of Privately Owned Firearms per 100 Population - World Ranking
In a 2007 comparison of the rate of private gun ownership in 178 countries, Cuba ranked at No. 104

Number of Licensed Firearm Owners
The number of licensed gun owners in Cuba is reported to be 54,1583

Rate of Licensed Firearm Owners per 100 Population
The rate of licensed firearm owners per 100 people in Cuba is 0.495

Number of Registered Firearms
The number of registered guns in Cuba is reported to be 58,1503

Rate of Registered Firearms per 100 Population
The rate of registered guns per 100 people in Cuba is 0.535

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/cuba


And as for them being "revolutionaries", :lol:

I just watched an interview of an eight year old Cuban girl who said "the Cuban people are so very happy because they have the love of their Comandante ." They're brainwashed from birth to be mindless little conformists, and that conformity is reinforced every day of their lives through ubiquitous state propaganda and the ever present threat of state violence for anyone who dares to go their own way. The Cubans aren't revolutionaries, far from it, what they are is a thoroughly subjugated and humiliated people.
#14903717
Sivad wrote:More blatant bullshit from you. They don't have guns. Private ownership of firearms is heavily restricted in Cuba, and even if it wasn't, the vast majority of Cubans couldn't afford to buy a gun.

https://www.havanatimes.org/?p=92736


Why should I believe Graham Sowa and not the Cubans who I actually spoke to in Cuba who talked about having guns?

Number of Privately Owned Firearms
The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in Cuba is 220,000

Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) per 100 people in Cuba is 2.01

Number of Privately Owned Rifles
In Cuba, the number of rifles in civilian possession is reported to be 1,5773

Number of Privately Owned Shotguns
In Cuba, the number of shotguns in civilian possession is reported to be 43,7543

Number of Privately Owned Handguns
In Cuba, the number of handguns in civilian possession is reported to be 12,8193

Number of Privately Owned Firearms - World Ranking
In a 2007 comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Cuba ranked at No. 76

Rate of Privately Owned Firearms per 100 Population - World Ranking
In a 2007 comparison of the rate of private gun ownership in 178 countries, Cuba ranked at No. 104

Number of Licensed Firearm Owners
The number of licensed gun owners in Cuba is reported to be 54,1583

Rate of Licensed Firearm Owners per 100 Population
The rate of licensed firearm owners per 100 people in Cuba is 0.495

Number of Registered Firearms
The number of registered guns in Cuba is reported to be 58,1503

Rate of Registered Firearms per 100 Population
The rate of registered guns per 100 people in Cuba is 0.535

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/cuba


Thank younfor providing evidence that many Cubans have guns.

And as for them being "revolutionaries", :lol:

I just watched an interview of an eight year old Cuban girl who said "the Cuban people are so very happy because they have the love of their Comandante ." They're brainwashed from birth to be mindless little conformists, and that conformity is reinforced every day of their lives through ubiquitous state propaganda and the ever present threat of state violence for anyone who dares to go their own way. The Cubans aren't revolutionaries, far from it, what they are is a thoroughly subjugated and humiliated people.


I doubt it. If brainwashing and propaganda were as prevalent as you claim, why does no one see it when they go to Cuba?

Why do you never provide examples of it?
#14903720
Pants-of-dog wrote:Thank younfor providing evidence that many Cubans have guns.


Thank you for demonstrating once again that your ignorance is impervious to facts and reason. I fully encourage you to keep responding with this kind of fatuous bullshit.


I doubt it. If brainwashing and propaganda were as prevalent as you claim, why does no one see it when they go to Cuba?


I wouldn't expect people like you to see past your ideological blinders or to honestly report it even if you did. Blinkered deniers aren't reliable sources.

Why do you never provide examples of it?


:lol: Do you really doubt that I can?
#14903740
Sivad wrote:Thank you for demonstrating once again that your ignorance is impervious to facts and reason. I fully encourage you to keep responding with this kind of fatuous bullshit.


As far as I can tell, the information you gave shows that Cubans own hundreds of thousands of guns.

I wouldn't expect people like you to see past your ideological blinders or to honestly report it even if you did. Blinkered deniers aren't reliable sources.


Insults are not an argument.

First, you insult all Cubans by calling them braiwashed sheep, and now you insult me by saying I am too stupid and ignorant to see it. :roll:

:lol: Do you really doubt that I can?


I think you could provide examples of brainwashing and propaganda if they existed. Since you do not provide these examples, it is logical to assume that they do not exist.
#14903758
Pants-of-dog wrote:As far as I can tell, the information you gave shows that Cubans own hundreds of thousands of guns.


Yeah, 200,000 guns for a population of almost 12 million. Only 2% of the population are estimated to own guns. And who do you think gets to decide who gets to own a gun and who doesn't? The Party decides. Who do you think the Party allows to have guns? Party members in good standing.


Since you do not provide these examples, it is logical to assume that they do not exist.


That's not logical, in fact it's completely fallacious. You should just bow out, you're not doing yourself or your cause any favors with these stunning displays of incompetence.
#14903804
Sivad wrote:Yeah, 200,000 guns for a population of almost 12 million. Only 2% of the population are estimated to own guns. And who do you think gets to decide who gets to own a gun and who doesn't? The Party decides. Who do you think the Party allows to have guns? Party members in good standing.


No, the data you showed is privately owned guns. I assume that the guns I were shown in Cuba were distributed by the government, seeing as how the people I was talking to were supoosed to act as a militia in the case of invasion. So the guns given to the party faithful would be above and beyond the guns your source describes.

That's not logical, in fact it's completely fallacious. You should just bow out, you're not doing yourself or your cause any favors with these stunning displays of incompetence.


Actually, if you are asked to provide evidence, and you claim the evidence is widespread, it is logical to assume that the evidence does not exist or is not widespread if the claimant does not produce said evidence.

In this case, you are being asked to provide evidence that Cubans are brainwashed.
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