[Suska]

Tell me what you think I'm talking about, if you can't it will have to come from someone else, or just ignore me.

[Dave]

I have no f@#$ing idea which is why I asked.

It's a wall of gibberish to me.

If you can't tell me does anyone here speak Suskanese?

[Hong Wu]

I think he's saying something along the lines of this post of mine: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=165186

Basically, we don't have a real community in the USA, we have market-oriented organizing principles which are naturally going to fail at making people not want to shoot each other.

[unbalanced zealot]

I have no f@#$ing idea which is why I asked.

It's a wall of gibberish to me.

If you can't tell me does anyone here speak Suskanese?

Have you considered that her wit and wisdom is going completely over your head?

Sometimes when I read convoluted academic texts and think what the fuck is this all about, I know deep down that I could never reach that level of complexity. It's all about knowing your place really.

[Suska]

Plenty of people here speak Suskanese apparently.

"we have market-oriented organizing principles which are naturally going to fail at making people not want to shoot each other."

is in the ballpark.

Islam is fanatic-community.

Even Queers are strident about community, they have to be to some extent because what they want cannot be got abstractly or by manufacturing.

Hong-Wu has argued about community with relation to micro-breweries, I would make the same argument about police - when they aren't personally accountable as a part of a community they are either idealists about the law or mercenaries.

when I consider the incident in Florida I think there's a lot of blame to go around, they failed collectively, this failure reinforces biases. Molineux went on an apoplectic rant about this, his is the popular notion actually - raise the volume and restate your values - what this must amount to eventually is war

It seems to me a lot easier to live apart from each other, the cultural identity of America is bankrupt already anyway. We have to decide if we want to go on pretending Washington is our cultural pope, or if communities can differ on fundamental issues.

[Dave]

What the f@#ck did you just say?

And can you use paragraph spacing please?

[Donna]

I think he is saying that everything is out of balance and conflict resolution is difficult.

[Verv]

I think he is saying that everything is out of balance and conflict resolution is difficult.

I think he is saying that everything is out of balance and conflict resolution is difficult.

Yes, and he is emphasizing that there is a need for a meaningful group culture or identity as just Americans. The Muslims, the LGBTQ community, the Police and several other groups have their own interests and communal allegiance which they are strong and often fanatical about... but the current government and society cannot hold them all together and keep them in a peaceful state with one another at all -- the 'marketing' fails.

And I would personally say that the marketing fails because no one really can believe strongly in the milquetoast value of non-judgmental tolerance. Just look at the nature of the 2016 elections -- it is the most polarizing elections that the US has ever seen because our concept as a united American people has started to cease functioning.

[Suska]

I think we have to choose between never-ending terrorism/ongoing genocidal practices and actual democracy.

I think it's easy to understand this when you grasp what a community is - when you grasp that American neoliberalism/market-authority treats genuine community as an insurrection - and that actually it is unavoidable according to the nature of biological limitations. What is derided as 'tribalism' has never left the Earth , not for a second, it's just treated as a pest by the market and accordingly exterminated or domesticated.

Actual democracy can't do more than the constituency agrees on. If we don't agree we're not a singular political body. If Queers and Muslims can't agree to a violent extent then in what way are they both Americans? They are both Americans in that they agree to abide by market oriented manners, which is not in the slightest way a community - as I've said, it is hostile to community. So America is in practice a series of community treaties, this is very far from entitling Congress to dictate cultural norms at a local level.

Some hold ardently to old ways, others want to experiment, if these ways of life increasingly diverge the government that represents their compromise will become increasingly nothing at all - so long as it holds to a principle of actual democracy. And if it doesn't, that will entail death camps and expulsion for whoever loses, or percolating resentment in a world full of deadly toys.

[Dave]

Appreciate the paragraph spacing but still have no f@#$ing clue about what you are trying to say.

Does anyone else understand?

[Donna]

Great points, Verv. It is good to see you again.

I think there is at least an effort to re-establish this point by recognizing that Islam is the enemy of Western Christian peoples.

[DrSteveBrule]

I think we have to choose between never-ending terrorism/ongoing genocidal practices and actual democracy.

I think it's easy to understand this when you grasp what a community is - when you grasp that American neoliberalism/market-authority treats genuine community as an insurrection - and that actually it is unavoidable according to the nature of biological limitations. What is derided as 'tribalism' has never left the Earth , not for a second, it's just treated as a pest by the market and accordingly exterminated or domesticated.

Actual democracy can't do more than the constituency agrees on. If we don't agree we're not a singular political body. If Queers and Muslims can't agree to a violent extent then in what way are they both Americans? They are both Americans in that they agree to abide by market oriented manners, which is not in the slightest way a community - as I've said, it is hostile to community. So America is in practice a series of community treaties, this is very far from entitling Congress to dictate cultural norms at a local level.

Some hold ardently to old ways, others want to experiment, if these ways of life increasingly diverge the government that represents their compromise will become increasingly nothing at all - so long as it holds to a principle of actual democracy. And if it doesn't, that will entail death camps and expulsion for whoever loses, or percolating resentment in a world full of deadly toys.

Summary : America is balkanized into different groups because capitalism does not build culture or social cohesion while pushing them together in the same place, and the forces of it are the only thing stopping these different groups from killing each other.

What's a solution for an increasingly balkanized America? I think we should just divide it up by states and let the states form their own coalitions. California and the Northwest will become the Democratic Peoples Republik of Cascadian California. Bernie can be president, and everyone gets their own ration of weed while reading the New York Times and listening to NPR is mandatory. Texas and the South can become the New American Confederation, where Trump leads talibaptists into failure by tricking them into giving him more money. The midwest will just chill, while the Northeast becomes a neoliberal runt state that remains rich by encouraging hyper consumption.

Problem solved.

[Hong Wu]

I think Dave is trolling by now, try reading my beer thread O fuhrer. If my Suskanese is still good, he said that local governments should have more power even if they are going to do things that others don't agree with because this would allow people more freedom to live their lives how they want to. It's also one of the presumptions of democracy, which we arguably don't have a "real" form of.

I am pretty sure though that there is no real democracy and we should all just declare me King.

[Suska]

"local governments should have more power even if they are going to do things that others don't agree with because this would allow people more freedom to live their lives how they want to."

it would be their life to live, beyond the scope of say a biker gang or a small town, that is the realm of diplomatic relations, not presumed authority

[Rei Murasame]

Also, now that I think about it, I wonder if this tragedy/crisis can be used to inflict defeats on the Afghan Taliban and Tehrik-e-Taliban simultaneously.

It could become more difficult for the US to sponsor 'negotiations' between the insurgents in Waziristan and FATA in general and the Afghan government, if the SJWs would shut up for a moment and allow the rest of us to actually pin the largest mass shooting in US history squarely onto a tendency arising from that region.

I have no hope that this will be allowed of course. Asking SJWs to stop covering for US semi-feudalist foreign policy, is like asking the sea to dry up.

[Dagoth Ur]

They're simply the left end of liberal imperialism. Of course they won't let that happen.

[Rei Murasame]

Pretty much. The shameful 'negotiations' have been going on stop-and-start for about a few months now (much to my chagrin), and they won't let a mass shooting affect it now.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living in real-life Metal Gear or something. Each day is punctuated with a fresh announcement of "What the hell."

[Suska]

hahah Rei, sure, the guy that murder suicided himself was a real pragmatic kinda guy, but thanks for stretching the term to make the comparison, of course I'm not joining your cult, but when you get the upper hand I'd make a decent colaborator

[Donna]

That said I have not become some silly reconstructionist. Mostly because the old gods either died or abandoned us (hence the lack of respectable [ie followable] pagan prophets in well over 1500 years), but also because we would have to guesswork almost the whole of the sacred texts which is just plain silly. Especially considering the scraps we have left are mostly written by Christian/Islamic enemies as anti-pagan rants or (likes the eddas) forced through an Abrahamic lens.

The Twilight of the Gods occurred as part of the pagan world's preparation for Jesus Christ's incarnation as the only Light of the world. Similarly in the Vedas, Krishna's departure initiated the beginning of the Kali Yuga. The Hellenic world at this time also fell into Pyrrhonian skepticism and it would not recover from it until St. Augustine baptized the Neoplatonic religion. Everywhere the gods became silent and the cosmos grew dark in order to honour the divine infant at Bethlehem. The world had to withdraw from the glory of its ancient wisdom in order for the kairos of the age to receive Christ's incarnation.

Peace be with you.

[Rugoz]

First of all it is not his policy. It is Kissingers/Brzezinski policy along with some other old timers which they suggested and that was approved. Same thing for Ukraine. The aim of this policy is the same as the cold wars. To wait out the situation and change it when the time is right. Point is that it might work for Russia but it will not work for ISIS.(Arguably it will not work for Russia because a regime change is not possible since the alternative to Putin are communists in reality) It also started a quazi second cold war. (THANKS OBAMA)

Lybia is okay because the objective was clear. Forceful removal of Qadafi, neutralisation of an Anti-Nato/Anti-Eu regime which had plans to contain and undermine our influence in the region.

By retaliation, i mean direct targeting of ISIS/AQ etc leaders and their families. The USSR was quite simple with this. When an USSR embassy was taken over by terrorists back durring the cold war then they just send a clear message to the terrorist or just a box with body parts of their relatives. After that the diplomats were released and nobody even dared to touch soviet union diplomats for 20 years. Why show moderation to terrorists when they are not going to show you any?

Hilaries record shows that she has voted for most if not all wars in the last 26 years. She has publicly advocated for them. She has a strong character and she is decisive. She was the main democratic advocat for sending aid to both Ukraine and Syria.(Military aid) She has aggravated the Chinese by sending aircraft carriers near their shores. She advocated for more troops in Afganistan and to not fully remove the Iraq contingent(actually positive decision). This is a quote from an advisor of hers:

“She believes, like presidents going back to the Reagan or Kennedy years, in the importance of the military — in solving terrorism, in asserting American influence. The shift with Obama is that he went from reliance on the military to the intelligence agencies. Their position was, ‘All you need to deal with terrorism is N.S.A. and C.I.A., drones and special ops.’ So the C.I.A. gave Obama an angle, if you will, to be simultaneously hawkish and shun using the military.”

There is no second cold war. The sanctions will probably be lifted within a few years. There had to be a reaction from NATO and it could have been much more forceful.

As for ISIS/AQ leaders, I'm certain the US is trying to target them.

Regarding Hillary, I stand corrected, we'll see whether it matters in practice.

Edit: I forgot about ISIS and the ilk a bit. The general policy is small intervention with an attempt for the region to sort itself out using its own forces. I simply do not believe that it will happen, because Iraq/Syria/etc can not stand by themselves when fighting Qatari/SA/Turkey supported ISIS/AQ/Etc. The region simply has greater local powers that will decide their zones of inluence instead of it sorting itself out if america doesn't do it. This plan would work if you can magically make Israel/Turkey/Qatar/SA/Iran non-interventionist states.

Yes, let the ME sort itself out, or let Russia play world police. Why should Americans care.