What is your middle nationality? - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Ongoing wars and conflict resolution, international agreements or lack thereof. Nationhood, secessionist movements, national 'home' government versus internationalist trends and globalisation.

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#13849709
CounterChaos wrote:There are some very interesting theories about this floating out there as to why this started and persists in the United States - I agree though - slow assimilation (natural assimilation) in my opinion is not detrimental to the integrity of a nation.

Irish/French


It doesn't have to be slow. I mean, an immigrant family is normally assimilated by the 3rd generation. It is more about the scale of immigration than anything. If you make all of Oregon full of French immigrants in one year, they will develop a distinct French-speaking culture there, that will compete with the mainstream American culture until one wins and predominates.

I am against multiculturalism because it not only destroys the national culture, but it is also unsustainable, since it generates a lot of cultural conflicts. Assimilation within a melting pot seems like a much better idea, in my opinion...

The immigrant's race and/or origin is irrelevant, imo, as long as he is assimilated :p
#13849750
I'm an Anglophonic Canadian which is all anyone needs to know to have a good time. Besides, its cumbersome enough without adding a flipping great pedigree to it.
#13853790
Turkish with various Turk descends.Except my maternal grandpa,who was from Konya,none of my grandparents are "Turks from Anatolia".
My maternal grandpa:A Balkan Turk,whom's mother is from Salonica(Thessaloniki) and with a father from Serrez.
Paternal grandmom:Ahiska-Meskhetian Turk from South Caucasus,in modern Georgia.
Paternal grandpa:Same with paternal grandmom but our surname/family title shows a distant connection from either Turkmenistan or Khorasan(Area between Turkmenistan-Iran-Afghanistan).My grandpa has a classic "Turkic" appearance also,he could easily pass in Ashgabat.

So I'd say,proudly Turkish with Caucasian,Balkan,Anatolian and some Central Asian origins.
#14167019
Defining one's identity by reference to nationality is a very limiting activity, especially when the nation state is no longer the main determinant of culture or allegiance.

I was born in Nottinghamshire and raised in Yorkshire, both parts of England, a part of the UK, a part of the EU. I live in Andalusia, a part of Spain, a part of the EU. My surname is Irish although I'm not aware of the Irish line in my descent. Thus I reckon that to claim a national identity is merely a matter of personal preference. I've got lots of options to choose from. Can I claim to be a Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire, Andaluz, English, Irish, Spanish, British, European?
#14167680
Andalublue wrote:Defining one's identity by reference to nationality is a very limiting activity, especially when the nation state is no longer the main determinant of culture or allegiance.


I agree - it's difficult to define myself by nationality. Unfortunately, I don't identify with any specific culture either. Being American of English, German and Osage Indian descent, I wasn't raised in a readily identifiable ethnic culture. Furthermore, I was born and raised at a time and place that bears little resemblance to the America of 2013, so I guess I'm kind of a lost soul. My allegiance lies more with the land than to the American people or my ethnic heritage.
#14167785
I'm primarily Anglo-German, both ethnically and culturally. Some Norwegian as well. While it is true that in America nationalism is mostly civic there are still plenty of ethnic and cultural distinctions one could make.

However overemphasizing any single division one could make, be it ethnic, cultural, national, class, gender, etc. can lead to a limited reductionist world view.
#14167806
Scandinavian /German/English.
But in U.S. nationalities do all start to blend together in the cliche melting pot.
#14168686
I'm American. My father's family was here before the revolution. My mother's parents emigrated from the UK and Ireland (part of the UK at the time) respectively. So I'm basically a culturally British yank.

According to my DNA, I'm 99.9% European and 0.1% East Asian or Native American. A deeper breakdown shows 89.9% Northern European, 1.7% Southern European and 8.3% non-specific European. I'm 0% for Eastern European and Ashkenazi. The East Asian/Native American bit is so tiny, I have to assume that it is Hun-based, rather than Native American. As for percentage of Neanderthal to Human, I'm 2.8% Neanderthal.

Paternally, I'm I1* haplogroup, which is usually considered Swedish. I'm guessing my family has been in the British Isles for 1000 years or so. The I1 haplogroup could be a tell tale for Norman, Saxon, or even the Danegeld invasions of the UK. Maternally, I'm J1c. My mother's family is Irish. The J1c subclade is much larger than J1b and J1d combined, which some believe to be an efficiency tradeoff between ATP production and radiating heat in Northern climes. J Haplogroup hails out of the Middle East. The Gaels, Galicians, Gauls, Cisalpine Gauls, and Galatians of Turkey are generally believed to have some genetic continuity.

TruePolitics wrote:The Japanese think of themselves as a pure race. They believe that Amaterasu, the Sun Goddess, established the Japanese race many centuries ago. They also think they are superior to the rest of the world.

Well... they kind of are relatively pure. I'm not so sure about Amaterasu. They are pretty much a superior race. It's kind of hard to argue otherwise.

Smertios wrote:This is something that really bothers me about Americans. They are always saying stuff like that, as if they had any cultural connections to those ancestries at all.

Well, it has played a significant role in shaping American culture. It shouldn't bother you too much. We may train our nuclear arsenal at our enemies, but for the most part we haven't wanted to anihilate Western Europe.

Smertios wrote:I mean, seriously, have you ever set up a maypole and dance around it for midsummer, like Swedes do? Have you ever dressed properly for an Oktoberfest, like Germans? Or paint real chicken eggs for Christmas, like Poles do?

You'd be surprised... Oktoberfest is quite popular in America. Maypoles? Not so much. As much as I'd like to put on a Norman helmet, mount my steed and cut down a Welsh upstart with my sword, that's not politically feasible these days... So I just say boorish things on chat forums to get my ya yas out...

Smertios wrote:Do you not like American musical styles, such as jazz, country, rock, etc?

I would concur that there is some sort of American culture, but it is tending to break down now. American Rock music deeply influenced British culture, which turned around and gave us their own versions of our culture. Why do you think Mick Jagger, Robert Plant, and Elton John sound like they're African American Southerners? However, the poisonousness of multiculturalism and political correctness is more or less creating a Balkanized America.

Smertios wrote:So there is a nation-wide shared American identity.

Yes, but it isn't what it used to be. That's why FoxNews exists. It's America's legacy identity. You can yammer on about Democrats and Republicans, but FoxNews is about the white middle class America of the mid-20th Century. That America is alive in the heartland, but dead in the North East and in California.

Far-Right-Sage wrote:None ever envisioned an open border with Mexico or a steady stream of people pouring in from East Asia, India, and Latin America.

So true. However, leftists believe that race is non-deterministic. They believe we are all the same and will live as one big happy family. Obviously, that's not the case, but they can't grapple with their religion being nothing more than a grand delusion.

Smertios wrote:But a society composed by Irish, English, Germans, Italians etc is also multicultural, just not multiracial. Unlike most of Europe, the US never really had one single majority church, for example. Are you sure you are against multicultiralism, not just multiracialism?

That's actually a very interesting question, since the classic notion of "Europe" is much like the notion of "American." It presupposes differences and unity. Multiculturalism is essentially an imperialist ideal for those hoping to achieve a single world government, single currency, etc. America was really founded as anti-monarchy, anti-noble, and anti-state religion. Otherwise, it was culturally British or European.

Smertios wrote:And, well, this is kind of unrelated to the subject, but I'm curious, what do you think about Hawaii? That state never really had a white majority. After the US conquered the kingdom, Japanese and Filipino immigrants came and now it is the multicultural mess it is today...

Yes, and it has more of a colonial feel than that of the 48 states.

Far-Right-Sage wrote:and has a novelty as a unique destination, providing a tropical place for mainland Americans to escape to without getting a passport. So as it stands, it's not a major grievance for me.

How true... You don't have to worry about "don't drink the water..." in Hawaii.

Smertios wrote:It won't be really multiculturalism after a few generations, when the original immigrant population will be completely assimilated.

I think what's probably not obvious to you is that assimilation is breaking down, particularly among Hispanics in California.

Smertios wrote:My main problem with immigration is when it comes in massive scales. The outsiders form large population blocks that won't be assimilated and eventually form a different culture.

That's what happened to America. Hispanics don't assimilate. A generation past the end of Southern Democrat-imposed racial segregation, and blacks are less assimilated now then they were in the 1960s and 1970s. You get people voting for Obama in spite of the fact that he's a terrible president just to prove to themselves that they aren't racist, or because he's a minority. You get Republicans nominating only nominal (liberal) Republicans and being surprised that they lost, assuming that the presupposed racist whites would all show up and vote for Romney. To see the shock on the faces of Romney, Karl Rove, and Dick Morris is to understand that urbanites really don't understand middle America anymore. Calling white middle Americans racist--which is what the Republicans do as well as the Democrats--is to say that they've ultimately abandoned the once great America in favor of multi-cultural liberalism too. I got a call from the Republican party thanking me for my help with the last election and asking me to renew my membership in spite of the fact that I left the Republican party in 2006 and haven't given them a dime since. The fact they are doing fund raising now suggests that Obama's fiscal cliff triumph is now draining the Republican party of cash. Romney lost precisely because Republicans aren't racist.

Smertios wrote:The US will not lose their Anglo-Celtic identity just because there are some Italian and Polish genes within the population.

I wouldn't be too sure. The liberal media has lost a lot of influence over the years, but they more or less created Barack Obama. Never have we had someone less qualified for office, or having been re-elected after having done such a terrible job. However, cable has liquidated the near monopoly of the mainstream media and streaming video will ultimately Balkanize things still further.

Smertios wrote:Yes, but what would your reaction be in case Hawaii decided to become independent based on the fact that they were never really "American", from a cultural point of view?

Hawaii is "safe exotic." It's a tropical Pacific vacation paradise for Americans. We have nuclear powered carriers now. We don't need Pearl Harbor anymore than we need Guantanamo Bay. So Hawaii going independent would just mean we don't have to subsidize them anymore. I'm guessing the biggest headache would be how to design a 49 star flag. Since Obama was either born there or not born there, I'm guessing Hawaii will remain in the Union.
#14172119
I'm a mongrel, nationally, racially and politically, no getting around it. I don't owe any Godamned allegiance to anyone. If the leaders could see inside my mind, they would have me shot.
#14180808
To Baff,

If you move to Japan you are a Englishman living in Japan.

Nationality is not just a matter of simple geography or living somewhere.

There is a cultural, ethnic, tradition, ancestoral, and language intricacies to it all.

I am a third generation German American with only a small segment of my family being Scottish on my grandmother's side. Grandfather came from Germany and grandmother from Scotland.

America used to have what I like to call European nationalism that is the nationalism of many European cultures dominantly.

America used to be dominantly European but now is a giant corporation that sells out to the cheapest international foreign workers it can import all in the name of crippling the American working class more specifically the previous majority of American European peoples. It is the same thing if not similar in a host of European and other western nations.

Of course in America the importation of cheap international foreign workers affects other ethnicities like the African Americans.

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