[Igor Antunov]

Simply put, Chinese army can't accept anywhere near as many volunteers per applicant, by virtue of volunteer numbers beeing far too high due to huge population, even as they are streamlining and shrinking the overall force. So it has extremely stringent selective entry, and it actively discriminates on your size, intelligence, etc during the selection process. I would put their recruits at a very high average standard. I know that here in Australia anybody that isn't obese can join the army on the basic level, I hear US requirements aren't very high either.

As for the training process, I don't think the Chinese lack resources in that department. Neither do they lack resources when it comes to equipping their soldiers properly.

In modern warfare physical strength plays a minor part, it's equipment, stamina and supply lines that must hold up.

[The One.]

I think you might want to rethink this thesis...

It is true that military service is not seen as a particularly attractive in the West, but even moreso in asian nations. Confucian culture == huge emphasis on education and away from blue collar jobs (which the armed forces represent).

Historically, China has been fairly isolationist. It's last combat experience was the third indochina war, in which it did badly on the tactical level-- incurring as many losses in a few months what the US incurred in the most murderous year of the Second indochina war(now geopolitically, it is another story).

[U184]

In modern warfare physical strength plays a minor part, it's equipment, stamina and supply lines that must hold up.

True, but this conversation is about CQC, not other aspects of modern warfare.

What do you base this on flint? Shorter average height? Probably not the case...

Height and weight.

Link
Average male height China (PRC) 164.8 cm (5' 4.9")
Average male height U.S. 178.2 cm (5' 10.2")

NEW YORK – August 12, 2008 – Alvanon, the global size and fit expert, today announced it has
compiled the most extensive collection of body scan research in China. Over 28,000 people were scanned
in four key regions of the country at various urban retail shopping centers. The scanners captured 45
measurements per person, resulting in the largest body measurement study ever performed in China.

Research Highlights
Even where the average height in China is similar to the Western body stature, the core body shape in
China is significantly smaller and more homogenous than in the markets of the U.S. and Europe. As an
example, there is a difference in stature in both genders between Chinese of northern origin and southern
origin. Men have similar average heights in China and the U.S. but have dramatically different average chest
and waist measurements, as well as differences in average weight and body mass.

Despite having a relatively small average stature when compared to Westerners, over 30 percent of urban
Chinese are considered overweight. Age and gender analysis shows the highest increase in body mass index
has occurred in Chinese women aged 35-45.

The above study from 2008 places Chinese males at a slightly taller statistic, but it is a newer study than the other one. This study in the USA from 2012 agrees that the average American man stands at 5 feet 9 inches, weighing 190 pounds.





So then the stats stand like this:

Average American male height - 5 feet 9 inches - Weight 190 pounds.
Average Chinese male height - 5 feet 8 inches - Weight 145 Pounds.






So I was wrong about the height, but I was not aware of the latest studies. However, the fact remains that the average American, in comparison to the average Chinese, is larger in body, muscle and bone mass.

If you take a look at boxing(and probably other combat sports), asians in general are far more likely to succeed in lower weight classes.

This may be true in boxing, but is definitely not true for other combat sports, or at least not Martial Arts related ones like kick boxing or MMA.

There are many reasons for this and not counting skill, experience or training, because we will assume that all the factors are equal.

The differences in height are important for several reasons, including the length of the large bones and the associated increase in bone mass, tendon and ligament strength/flexibility.

The majority of linear growth occurs as growth of cartilage at the epiphysis (ends) of the long bones which gradually ossify to form hard bone. The legs compose approximately half of adult human height, and leg length is a somewhat sexually dimorphic trait. Some of this growth occurs after the growth spurt of the long bones has ceased or slowed. The majority of growth during growth spurts is of the long bones. Additionally, the variation in height between populations and across time is largely due to changes in leg length.

Greater height almost always means longer arms, and thus a longer reach, height also affects the leverage between muscle volume and bones towards greater speed, power, strength and agility. Past this, longer bones in the leg and arms increases leverage and that means more power can be applied in moves that apply pressure to body joints and the bones in general.

More MMA style fights are ended via knock out, then any other means. Second was by tap out, where a joint or bone lock was applied.

Longer bones, reach and greater body, muscle mass combined with stronger tendons and ligaments means greater strength and speed and this increases ones ability to generate explosive power, thus increasing the odds of knock out. The same can be said for locks and joint manipulation moves.

Now as for being short, this means one has a lower center of gravity and that will help for throws and take downs but only if ones opponent is not stronger, faster and or more agile. In the aspect of combat, agility is the combination of natural ability and experience coupled with training and general reaction time.

Igor, you can make a lot of good arguments for the Chinese, size comparisons is not one of them...

[Igor Antunov]

Since we don't fight classical formation battles anymore, this argument is moot anyway flint. A small woman can kill 10 large men with the pull of a trigger. And I suspect the ectomorph form lends itself better to prolonged marching on fewer supplies, while still being able to carry as much baggage.

But ectomorphs are quite capable of becoming uselessly buff:



Men like that are a liability in modern warfare.

[U184]

Since we don't fight classical formation battles anymore, this argument is moot anyway flint.

No we do not fight classical formation battles, we do infiltrate in small units, special forces, the teams, etc. As things are today, more missions involving the US military are done by special forces, by whatever branch.

So the "argument" is FAR from moot... Again we are talking about CQC and that aspect of war will never go away. In fact, from the trenches in WWI and WWII to the jungles in Vietnam and into the Middle East and the surrounding areas, where the in fighting is in closed rural areas, and winding closed in areas, like clearing structures... CQC is prevalent and always will be.

As long as we have troops on the ground, there will be hand to hand combat. Why do you continue to compare apples to tanks? I am sure you can stay on track, even if your views of military operations are WAY off base.

Nice photo...

However your ability to find a muscle bound Asian aside, we are talking about average soldiers, is that your idea of an average Chinese solider Igor? If so I am not so sorry to disappoint you as the average People's Liberation Army Special Operations solider looks more like this...




Those guys look tough and I am sure they are but they are also smaller, in every way to the average US solider as proven above. I am sure you can find tons of pictures of bulky Chinese, but lets not be disingenuous here.

As for the average soldier in the US special forces... They fall somewhere between this>



And this>


I am sure these look like anything but the average solider to you and your right, however we, as in The One and I , have been talking about special forces, not whatever you want to derail the conversation to, in order to feel better about the Chinese.

[Igor Antunov]

These chinese speciual ops examples you provided are youngsters, fresh recruits, those american guys look like they're in their 30's or late 20's.

And I can't believe it's come down to this, economy and industry wins wars, not individual knightly prowes. This significance ended on the fields of agincourt.

[U184]

Igor, if you notice... those images are from http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/pla-special-forces.jpg So young they may be, but this is there special forces, can you provide a counterpoint?

And I can't believe it's come down to this, economy and industry wins wars, not individual knightly prowes. This significance ended on the fields of agincourt.

Economy and industry wins wars?

Ok, but who fights them?

Soldiers.

In any war 2 things need to happen in order to win: Air superiority and physical control of an area and more often than not, that means boots on the ground.

Large scale engagements aside, many times the USA and other Countries achieve their objects, not by full out wars but by small missions with tactical objectives. These missions are carried out by the countries special forces, I know you know this, why argue the point?

Regardless of the other points you are making, the focus of the discussion we were having was on CQC, if you want to discuss something else feel free, but why interject into this discussion in a way that has no bearing whatsoever?

[Typhoon]

Average American male height - 5 feet 9 inches - Weight 190 pounds.

Problem is the general statistics are all distorted by the fat bastards out there, most photography is often too weak statistically to draw conclusions and obviously biased by the photographers desire to capture the exceptional photo, first US shot looks like a fitness magazine or advert of Calvin Klein.

Statistics on some of these little populations are out there though, the 75th Rangers have a height of 69" and weigh 174 pounds, fitness rating is 275 of 300. In the average height of a seal trainee was 59" with a mass of 170 pounds for a study of 267 participants just before 1988 according to Am. J. Clin. Nutr.

[Dave]

This thread is so gay...

[Zionist Nationalist]

[U184]

O, shhh Dave, given the chance you would take any such training I offered you AND you could have made the same argument I just did, not to mention... you can do a lot better than a quick chirp, but your heart just wasn't in it.

[Rancid]

This thread is so gay...

I was going to post exactly the same thing. When I saw the pictures of men I just thought to myself "This thread is getting kind of gay."

It's fun watching Igor cowtow to China so hard, that too is kind of gay.

[Igor Antunov]

This thread is gay on a fundamental level. It penetrates itself in the ass with the very title.

[U184]

Have you considered moving to China or marring a nice Chinese dom?

[Igor Antunov]

Marriage? Ha! An obsolete tradition.

I'll marry you if you give me half your wealth.

[Godstud]

Marriage can be very rewarding and is hardly obsolete. Some people prefer a certain level of committment to each other, in a relationship. I'm getting married in a month.

[U184]

Congrats GS!

[Godstud]

Thanks, KFlint. Sorry Igor, she's not Chinese. She is Thai/ Laos, though(and she has been mistaken for being Chinese). We are close to China, though. I'd rather there not be a war, thanks.

[Igor Antunov]

Congratulations. An exotic choice. If you want stability in the future relationship, start working on those bubs. Give her at least 2 to work with initially, then increase to 4 and top it off with 6. They are the cement that glues her to your foundations.

[Godstud]

Start working on those bubs....
What's a bub? Boob? I prefer just 2, thanks.