[MLSN]

I am sure this has probably been discussed at some other time, but is China becoming a new world power? Are they trying to take over the world, starting with Africa, or is it just a superstition?

[fuser]

What do you mean by taking over the world? Militarily?

[MLSN]

I mean that many countries began to outsource to China and now China has become a very strong country, maybe even a superpower, and I am wondering if they got a plan with what they are doing? Are they looking to take USA's place as a superpower? Do they got the resources necessary?

I think i'm wondering if we can expect some big chances in the balance of the world in the upcoming years.

[Igor Antunov]

They're not trying to create an empire, if that's what you mean. Beijing is not exporting its politics and ideology abroad, as the soviet union did and the US presently does.

But the economic engine is shifting east, obviously. With that will shift a great deal of political influence.

[Americanroyalty]

China already is a world power, economically, their manufacturing sector is directly tied into the global economy. They're also investing in countries all over there world, including america. They tried to buy a iron mine in my home state Minnesota. As far a gaining control of Africa, they only seem to be interested in gaining access to natural resources. No political or military control.

China seems more interested in their own economic prosperity. Besides America already has the world police thing locked down, so why should China waste money in such an inherently unprofitable venture.

[Social_Critic]

The USA isn't the "world police", the USA's military forces are used to impose the government's will, extend power and contain perceived threats, but it's far from being engaged in "policing" actions. When it does as in Somalia 1993 it tends to botch things.

[Americanroyalty]

Well that's the excuse when there needs to be an invasion to shore up economic(oil) and military concerns. I think the last police action was wmds.

[skeptic-1]

The USA isn't the "world police", the USA's military forces are used to impose the government's will, extend power and contain perceived threats, but it's far from being engaged in "policing" actions. When it does as in Somalia 1993 it tends to botch things.

TIME TO REVERSE COURSE:


On Jan 7, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Adam Green, BoldProgressives.org wrote: SLUSH

On Jan. 7 2013 skeptic-1 wrote>

1. Allow nuclear weapons In Iran.

2. Indicate a first strike by anyone"using" such weapons will result in a "full blown" nuclear reply.

3. Islam is no more or no less important in the world than all the major religions. Do our part to support this contention.

4. Remind office seekers they will be judged by facts not fiction or payoffs and recall procedures will be adjusted to provide quick action.

[Franker65]

Well, realistically, one can't argue that China is a major world power, a superpower now if you will. I'd agree with Igor when he says that they are not trying to create an empire and do not export their politics and ideology. If they were hell bent on territorial conquest/ideological exportation, surely Chinese troops would have taken Taiwan by now.

However, situations always change and the rhetoric seems to suggest China certainly favours some sort of territorial expansion in the South China Sea at some stage in the future. The statistics about Chinese military expenditure don't lie, and most countries in the region from Vietnam to Japan are pissed off. Still, I'll only believe in Chinese aggression when I see it.

[oppose_obama]

China isn't a super power. Super powers can project force around the world, china cant even take back a few islands in its backyard.

[Igor Antunov]

Can superpowers lose wars to 3rd world mountain herders and be called superpowers?

[oppose_obama]

Yes, they can.

[JohnRawls]

Can superpowers lose wars to 3rd world mountain herders and be called superpowers?

Cough Mongo..... Cough Chin.... Cough cough cough....

[Igor Antunov]

Are you suggesting any power then was a match for mongol horsearchers? Name one. The mongols were applying blitzkrieg economically centuries before the germans, of course nobody stood a chance.

[JohnRawls]

The mighty nation of Nippon You know who is shticking it to China right now.

[skeptic-1]

Are you suggesting any power then was a match for mongol horsearchers? Name one. The mongols were applying blitzkrieg economically centuries before the germans, of course nobody stood a chance.

Today in the midst of potential calamity in our world we seem to have an aura building that gives one a sense that a wave of understanding is developing in respect to the need to "SAVE" our planet this from a Military and Financial perspective.

From a Military standpoint we have a "Mexican Standoff" of sorts and from a Financial point of view we are virtually ready to accept what is and adjust to live with it. There is no other choice !

I am cautiously optimistic that the common sense of our leaders will begin to kick in and we will see the War mongers retreat from an unsustainable position.

IMO "No one is sticking it to another in other than a defensively derived move" that can be negotiated.

[Varax]

I am sure this has probably been discussed at some other time, but is China becoming a new world power?

I'd say China already is a world power at least economically - economic power begets military power. Its military strength is currently transitioning from regional to global.

They're not trying to create an empire, if that's what you mean. Beijing is not exporting its politics and ideology abroad, as the soviet union did and the US presently does.

I'm curious Igor - don’t you see as China’s rising economic power leading to a "Beijing consensus" supplanting the "Washington consensus" as the dominant model for economic development in the 21st century? Also, all powers tend to export their political agendas abroad - China's may be more practical than ideological but they still push for policies that favor themselves.

As for building an empire, why do you think they aren't? I'd say China is certainly in the game of building empires at least in the sense that the US and USSR - that is using economic clout, development aid, etc. to make regimes more inclined to them and from there build military ties leading to global power projection. All major powers do it to an extent and good for them. China doesn't make pretentions about capitalism/democracy and communism abroad as much as the US and USSR (though I would like to remind you that the US has often taken a more realist approach as well, historically) in favor of pragmatism, but how does it really make it all that different?

[Igor Antunov]

I'll concede that they're still no doubt trying to build an empire in the sense of economic benefit to themsleves, but because it is not an ideological endeavour at all (I have seen no signs as such) it is not in the style of the more traditional empires of the 19th and early 20th century, of bringing their brand of 'civilising' and 'ways' to others, something the US has stuck to.

[skavar]

That's a nice dream skeptic. Now how are you going to get special interest groups such as pharmaceuticals, military-industrial complex, bankers, and the big elephant in the room -foreign interest, out of Washington's policy making?

TIME TO REVERSE COURSE:


On Jan 7, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Adam Green, BoldProgressives.org wrote: SLUSH

On Jan. 7 2013 skeptic-1 wrote>

1. Allow nuclear weapons In Iran.

2. Indicate a first strike by anyone"using" such weapons will result in a "full blown" nuclear reply.

3. Islam is no more or no less important in the world than all the major religions. Do our part to support this contention.

4. Remind office seekers they will be judged by facts not fiction or payoffs and recall procedures will be adjusted to provide quick action.

[Far-Right Sage]

China may not be exporting any ideology, perhaps because the Chinese no longer seem to have any distinct ideology beyond the same old state capitalist model, but to pretend the effects of their neocolonial endeavors are taking only a negligible toll on local populations in Africa would be erroneous. Wildly low fixed rates for the import of timber from, for example, Mozambique, is wreaking havoc there, and the Chinese are directly or indirectly damaging flora and fauna already in certain countries with their expanding market for luxury products - One result of the Chinese obsession with crushed rhino horn as utilization for the purposes of an aphrodisiac, as an example, has been a largescale thinning of Kenya's treasured and dwindling rhinoceros population through illegal third party poaching in protected reserves.

The dream for a sustainable and effective African independence and a strengthened African Union in the early part of this century has died with Libyan independence, and now the massive Chinese economic expansion in this continent is soon to be shown as little better for the native inhabitants than Western hegemony has been.