Japan Can Retaliate Against North Korea - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Ongoing wars and conflict resolution, international agreements or lack thereof. Nationhood, secessionist movements, national 'home' government versus internationalist trends and globalisation.

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#14559840
Rei Murasame wrote:How are we hypocrite murderers? We openly do what we do without apology, it's you Russian people on the other hand who seem to think that there is some form of universal morality involved here.

Race war is like the mafia. We don't care about how the numbers will eventually compare to other numbers, since our goal is to make sure that we can do more damage to you than you can do to us.

I'm not trying to prove who is 'bad' and who is 'good' because I don't care about that. I'm merely showing that these groups do not have shared destinies and are bound to oppose each other. I happen to support the side that I am on. You keep bringing your petty-moralism to try to make the Russian Federation look like a poor victim who is 'surrounded by NATO and and other hostile groups'. We don't give a fuck how it looks from your Russian perspective, because we don't care about you. We care about ourselves.


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Well, at least Rei is being the only one honest about his intentions here. Both sides try to "history-shame" each other but in the end it comes to a comparison of who is crappier than the other. As far as I am concerned you are all a big mass of crap. If you actually had the balls and the power, you would wage wars on your own countries' soil. But instead, you are being sneaky bastards and decide to go full proxy wars, dragging other smaller, weaker and innocent countries in your "who-has-the-most-authority-crapfest". I just hope you will nuke yourselves to oblivion and perhaps the world could be a better place.
#14559849
Laconas wrote:Well, at least Rei is being the only one honest about his intentions here.

First off, I'm a woman. Second off, I am always honest, it saves time -- I'll basically never lie to you.

Laconas wrote:If you actually had the balls and the power, you would wage wars on your own countries' soil. But instead, you are being sneaky bastards and decide to go full proxy wars, dragging other smaller, weaker and innocent countries in your "who-has-the-most-authority-crapfest".

The reason it's waged by proxy, is because the territory where the proxy war is being waged is the place where the geostrategic gains will be either attained or lost.

Waging it on our own territory wouldn't make any sense since that is the not where the dispute is actually happening.
#14559915
One Degree wrote:I have no interest in anyone's history of killing others. I only want to know if you are done killing others and if you are done trying to expand your borders.

Russia isn't started to killing others yet. And we do not expand our borders. For example, you can look the map and you will find Poland.

Azure Angel wrote:Is this truly true? Would someone be so kind and educate me?

Maybe it's not very persuasively to prove the thesis from the side of who claimed it, but this number (I do not insist it is very precise, plus minus 50 millions, who cares?) is a sum of victims of Opium wars, North America's colonization, Atlantic slave trade, genocide of Boers and Bengali hungers. I do not know so how much lost people were lost by other India, so I did not count it. History of Australia too. Maybe the final number will be bigger.

Rei Murasame wrote:How are we hypocrite murderers?

Well, it is a good question. Maybe I wasn't so right here. On the one side Japanese are murderers en masse, though honest. You specifically are hypocrite when you talk about brutality of Russians and how they massacred other people (because we did not do it in difference of), but you only a wanna-be murderer yet.

Rei Murasame wrote:Race war is like the mafia. We don't care about how the numbers will eventually compare to other numbers, since our goal is to make sure that we can do more damage to you than you can do to us.

No wonder. Ones who decide the problems like space colonization must defend themselves from savages who can only damage others. But there are a lot of useful tools for keeping savages out: barbed wire, machine guns, mines, drones.

Rei Murasame wrote:You keep bringing your petty-moralism to try to make the Russian Federation look like a poor victim who is 'surrounded by NATO and and other hostile groups'. We don't give a fuck how it looks from your Russian perspective, because we don't care about you. We care about ourselves.

Who are we? Japan, UK or USA?

Laconas wrote:If you actually had the balls and the power, you would wage wars on your own countries' soil.

Did you mean: if you had no brains? Those sentences are very pretty, but they are senseless. If you really had the balls you would jump from that tower on the concrete floor. Seriously? Seriously?
#14559933
Ganeshas Rat wrote:You specifically are hypocrite when you talk about brutality of Russians and how they massacred other people

But that's not hypocritical. That is a fact.

If you walk up to my mother tomorrow morning and shoot her 5 times in the head before stealing her money, and I say, "Because you did that, I am going to kill you and take everything back plus more", that is not hypocrisy, that's me advocating the defence of my own kin and my own interests. There is no universal moral content in that sentiment. I'd be simply explaining why I'm going to make trouble for you.

I notice that white people on the European continent seem to have a serious problem wrapping their heads around the concept that I can be reacting to your violence with additional violence, without me actually condemning violence in and of itself. This should not be difficult for people to understand, it's a sentiment stemming from the lowest and most basic level of existence.

I'm not against violence. I'm against violence when it's disadvantageous to me or my interests. There is a difference.

Ganeshas Rat wrote:Ones who decide the problems like space colonization must defend themselves from savages who can only damage others. But there are a lot of useful tools for keeping savages out: barbed wire, machine guns, mines, drones.

Good luck with that.
Last edited by Rei Murasame on 23 May 2015 17:30, edited 1 time in total.
#14559935
Rei Murasame wrote:But that's not hypocritical. That is a fact.

No, it is not a fact. It is you who walked up to my mother, shooted her 5 times in the head and then said: "Because you did that, I am going to kill you and take everything back plus more". That is hypocrisy.
#14559936
Ganeshas Rat wrote:No, it is not a fact. It is you who walked up to my mother, shooted her 5 times in the head and then said: "Because you did that, I am going to kill you and take everything back plus more". That is hypocrisy.

Then I guess we have a historical disagreement (ie, Russia is telling shameless lies and hoping that someone is listening to such lies), but my view remains unchanged. You are going to have to just accept that no amount of liberal bullshitting is going to get you out of this bind.

You have enemies, and there are no words that are going to deter us.

"No, no, don't you see, all of this stuff never actually happened, and so you should stop trying to kill us". Sorry, that's not how this works. You might as well be lecturing the Hmong on why they shouldn't be trying to kill French colonialists during 'the War of the Insane', for all the good it will do. The 'War of the Insane' was an example of a typically Asian reaction to problems, and you are just going to have to accept that you are living in the wrong neighbourhood.

But hey, if you choose to plant yourself in the middle of Asia blatantly occupying the land, what do you expect will happen other than several hundred years of conflict from 1100 CE to the present day? You could start making concessions to some Asians, or perhaps to NATO, and maybe the situation would cool down a bit. But as it stands I think you can expect at least another 500 years of on-off proxy wars and some outright direct wars.
#14559938
It's not completely senseless to get rid of your enemies first, instead to engage in proxy wars which may turn out to be more expensive regarding resources(including human 'resources'). If you manage to get rid of your enemies directly, then you may secure less competition in the future..
#14559940
Sure, but Russia is pretty well entrenched, it's not like we could just attack Russia directly and start taking away slices of land from them just like that. Breaking up the Russian Federation is going to take lots of time and patience. If all of Russia's opponents were to just impulsively attack head-on tomorrow, all that would happen is that Russia would definitely win. Which would be bad for us.

Preparation is more than half the battle, and the proxy-wars and the NATO supporting elements of that preparation are basically a necessary precondition for being able to face down Russia with an advantage later, rather than a disadvantage.

We should only go for them directly once it appears that we could win.
#14559946
We have every reason to wage proxy wars. We do not want to dirty our hands with the ruthlessness necessary to subdue "certain" areas.


We should fear North Korea. They have something in the person of Kim Jong Un that we do not have.

He is not your garden variety dictator. First he speaks German.

Second he is awkward around Swiss women. (But then who isn't?)

Third, he shot a round of golf with 10 holes in one.

Fourth, he is a friend of Dennis Rodman. (Tall thug who made a lot of money. I forget how.)

Fifth, and most disturbing of all....according to his official biography he does not shit.

He remains:

We vow with bleeding tears to call Kim Jong-un our supreme commander, our leader."

"the genius among the geniuses"

"a great person born of heaven"

"respected comrade who is identical to Supreme Commander Kim Jong-il"


He has bad knees.
#14559950
Rei Murasame wrote:Then I guess we have a historical disagreement (ie, Russia is telling shameless lies and hoping that someone is listening to such lies), but my view remains unchanged. You are going to have to just accept that no amount of liberal bullshitting is going to get you out of this bind.

I do not believe in the historical disagreements because I do not believe in the history. History is a prostitute of states. That's why I do not take your opinions your opinion (oh, we are eternal enemies and it all will be ended with someone's slitted throat), all this drama is good for theaters, not for real life. The real life is: 'Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. Oceania has never been at war with Eastasia'.

When it will be useful for Japanese (for example, when they will start war somewhere else) they will swiftly forget this stuff about eternal rivals. And maybe will remember again later. So, all this is only about interests while morale and propaganda are the weapons. That's why I spend time on the questions of morale.

As the russian philosopher Dm. Galkovsky said about the colonization of China:
"About what the scheme of 'China's stagnation' of XIX century talks? Europeans had got ready to KILL.
Akela: A deer is a very good animal.
First helper: Very good.
Second helper: Great.
First smasher: Meat.
Third scavenger: Horns. Hooves.
Akela: A noble beast. Beautiful...
First helper: (Comes saliva out and starts to scrape ice crust with the paw).
Akela: But this deer on that shore, he is old and sick.
First smasher: Yeah, dead meat. And winter comes...
Third scavenger: Stagnate. Really decaying alive.
Akela: I think Chinese need help."

So, yes, it is a question of morale. Russia is blamed of crimes she has never commited and why I must agree with those wolves' songs?

Rei Murasame wrote:Sorry, that's not how this works. You might as well be lecturing the Hmong on why they shouldn't be trying to kill French colonialists during 'the War of the Insane'

Hmong are very bad example (for me, at least). I said before (And I always say honestly too, by they way) my opinion decolonization was the worst for those decolonized themselves, not for colonialists who saved all their rights and privileges. But Hmong. Those people helped to Americans to colonize Asia, fought against their brothers for 'friends behind the ocean'. What they can teach me about killing of French colonialists? The nation of traitors.

Rei Murasame wrote:But hey, if you choose to plant yourself in the middle of Asia, what do you expect will happen?

Friendship and kindness of natives. Russia's influence in Asia was mostly positive for the region, stabilizing it. So, I do not think we have some problems with Asia. Trade only grows, thanks to US.

Rei Murasame wrote:But as it stands I think you can expect at least another 500 years of on-off proxy wars and some outright direct wars.

The planet will be united in the next 50-100 years maximum with no more proxy wars and other shit. Not by Russia though, and a lot will regret it. More people will die.

Laconas wrote:It's not completely senseless to get rid of your enemies first, instead to engage in proxy wars which may turn out to be more expensive regarding resources(including human 'resources').

Proxy wars is how you get rid of your enemies now. It is the problem of technology. The defense will always supreme the attack, so proxy wars are the same as trench warfare of the Great War.
Also, there probably will be no direct wars more, if to suppose the potential attacked all have doomday's devices (they have).

Drlee wrote:We should fear North Korea. They have something in the person of Kim Jong Un that we do not have.

Should we fear Somali too? There are very very scary and evil pirates who rob ships and fear nothing. Eskimos are a real threat nowadays too.

Drlee wrote:He is not your garden variety dictator. First he speaks German.

Putin does too.
#14559999
Ganeshas Rat wrote:I do not believe in the historical disagreements because I do not believe in the history. History is a prostitute of states. That's why I do not take your opinions your opinion (oh, we are eternal enemies and it all will be ended with someone's slitted throat), all this drama is good for theaters, not for real life.

Anyone is allowed to feel what they want. Obviously I won't waste time disputing your feelings.

Ganeshas Rat wrote:Hmong are very bad example (for me, at least). I said before (And I always say honestly too, by they way) my opinion decolonization was the worst for those decolonized themselves, not for colonialists who saved all their rights and privileges.

It's a bad example for you, because it's a pattern of behaviour that doesn't cater to your feelings. I have no intention of trying to argue against your feelings.

The Hmong actions are a pretty example for anyone else, which is why I chose it as an example of a pattern.

Ganeshas Rat wrote:Friendship and kindness of natives. Russia's influence in Asia was mostly positive for the region, stabilizing it.

I think I should file that one under, "Amazing things that Russians actually claim to believe". Friendship and kindness! If you're really expecting that, then I can only forecast that there will be even more expressions of surprise, agony, and outrage on the faces of Russians in the future, when they are yet again reminded that geostrategic imperatives and history are stubborn things.

Your writing has more flourish and more sophistication than mine, but without an anchor in reality it doesn't make much difference.
#14563751
There are over 30 million 'natives' still residing across the Siberian plain. There are <3 million 'natives' still residing across north America, a far more hospitable region with a much higher base population in the past. Tens of millions were systematically annihilated by settlers from western Europe.

Russians like other Eastern European people are far more tolerant of those they outnumber/conquer. This is why those they conquer tend not to go extinct physically and culturally. This is why major minority groups such as gypsies and Jews always gravitated east, to the bosom of more tolerant peoples, to their protection, and for good reason-it was the west that attempted to annihilate them not so long ago.

All this can be evidenced in the respective foreign policies of various powers today. The US ACTIVELY exports its socioeconomic and cultural systems, killing millions every decade in its attempts to do so.
#14563769
That's some top quality and amazingly great cocaine you are huffing there, Igor. Clearly it's a formulation that the UK has yet to be blessed with, so send some of it over here! I mean, wow, it must be incredibly expensive.

You seem to believe that Russians having their philosemitic obsession with cuddling and loving the Jews (as though anyone is supposed to care about that!), somehow magically nullifies the historical fact that Russians are the most massive killers of Asian peoples that ever presented itself to the continent, and that it also magically nullifies the fact that Russians are physically occupying the land and physically extracting the resources with their white bodies and their borders.

The Russian Federation remains intrinsically anti-Asian by the virtue of the existence of its present borders.

So that entire post you've written is trash. Very well-written trash, but trash none the less.

________

EDIT: Also, given that this thread is about Korea, it only becomes more comedic trash when a person stops to consider that you are suggesting that Russia's support for the open-air prison camp which is North Korea, can be smoothed over by you pointing out that Russia loves and shelters Jews. South Korea is one of the most antisemitic countries in the entire world (something like 60% of them believe that Jews are plotting to destroy Korea or something and that they have to be vigilant). Telling South Korea to relax because Russia loves Jews and has empowered Jews more than the west ever could, will not endear you to South Koreans. That's just an additionally fucked-up real fact about Russia which will just make them hate you even more.
#14563840
Rei Murasame wrote:The Hmong actions are a pretty example for anyone else, which is why I chose it as an example of a pattern.

The great example for everyone who wants to know how to lose your land
Rei Murasame wrote:You seem to believe that Russians having their philosemitic obsession with cuddling and loving the Jews

Maybe some Japanese or British Russians cuddle and love Jews, but it is "a bit" different in Russia. I don't continue here, because I can explain why specifically Russiand don't like Jews and Gypsies very much, but it seems, you will not understand what I say because you've never seen any Jew (except Zbigniew Brzezinski, maybe).

Rei Murasame wrote:somehow magically nullifies the historical fact that Russians are the most massive killers of Asian peoples that ever presented itself to the continent

The most massive killers of Asian peoples are Brits (80 millions Chinese + at least 20 millions Indians is the absolute record, noone and never more, even France). I asked you to example at least 10,000 murdered by Russians or Russian orders.
But I, of course, understand the source of those opinions. When someone reads about Asian peoples living on the territory of Russia he thinks: 'Oh, they've been occupied, the clear thing. They maybe even scream under Russians bloody rule'. It is easy to believe, when you've really conquered some folks before. Well, there are three things everybody needs to know about Asian peoples of Russia:
1. They fully have their culture, language and religion up to these days.
2. They have MORE rights in Russia than any Russian have because of the specifics of Russia's federative structure.
3. There was no physical occupation. Just because colonisation of Asian part of Russia started in the end of XVI century. All who did live on the territories of Siberia in this period were, certainly, great and proud civilizations like Aztlan, but if to see objectively, they were primordial people living on the stage of hunters and gatherers. The problem of hunters is they cannot hold a population big enough. When agrarians come, hunters just vanish without a trace, because it is difficult to save your genes with the ratio 10 000 to 1. That was not the first time, by the way. Before that, Slavic settlers dissolved Finno-Ugric people and some nomads who aren't more dense than hunters. It's just the question of numbers and numbers are the question of your food technology.
I specially remember, in that period while Russians colonize the real no man's land, Japanese proudly closed them up in Japan to make some more interesting thing like the endless civil war. Well, now you try to prove those are Japanese lands because it is close to Japan and Russia somehow took it from Japanese.

Rei Murasame wrote:Also, given that this thread is about Korea, it only becomes more comedic trash when a person stops to consider that you are suggesting that Russia's support for the open-air prison camp which is North Korea

I do not know about Russian support for the North Korea. Soviet did maybe. They supported a lot of African, Arabian and Asian holes. So, why not? Soviet did a lot of the bad stuff to Russians too.
Russia really DID a colonial crime in Asia. But nobody will write anything about it. Europeans - because it was the result of European great powers conspiracy, and specifically you - because Russia and Japan were allies in that years.
Or maybe because anybody thinks it is a stupid and non-interesting period of history when nothing important was happened.

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