U.S Terrorists bomb MSF hospital - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Ongoing wars and conflict resolution, international agreements or lack thereof. Nationhood, secessionist movements, national 'home' government versus internationalist trends and globalisation.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14607016
taltom wrote:Accuracy (or more specifically "precision") is not the same as targeting.

Agreed, but would you also agree the U.S has the best hardware for this? And it's highly unlikely they just "slipped up".

taltom wrote:Hospitals in Afghanistan are not usually of outstandingly different architecture than any surrounding buildings. From the air, an array of Afghani buildings looks much like a spilled box of children's blocks of various sizes.

Are the missiles not GPS-guided?

taltom wrote:In the US, there are very obvious signs of a building's function, such as ambulances coming and going, huge lighted signs, and even decorative elements like huge crosses for those owned by religious orders. And they are prominently placed on extremely detailed maps. In Afghanistan, not so much. And buildings are often crammed closely together.

So you've got to be more careful then. Otherwise you don't actually believe in preserving civilian lives. You believe in a cost equation instead.

taltom wrote:So if a team is receiving fire from in or near a hospital, they may not know it's a hospital, or they may actually be taking fire from it. They must now identify the target, and that's often very difficult to do. Their air support can indeed drop a smart bomb with pinpoint precision, but the explosion is not so cooperative. The blast radius isn't predictable and the locally-acquired shrapnel could be almost anything, and go almost anywhere. "Surgical" strikes are nearly impossible in densely populated ares that have not been evacuated.

Don't blame the invaded for your invasion techniques.

taltom wrote:This is nowhere near a new problem for the military.

Right, we've seen the carpet bombing, the nuking of entire cities etc.
#14607087
Drlee wrote:Evidence?

I thought not.

Isn't the fact that they actually bombed the hospital evidence enough.

While this story is headline grabbing due to its explosive content Americas support for the Saudi's blockade on Yemen that is resulting in the slow starvation of thousands of people there, who would welcome an air strike as a mercy kill, is a far more heinous crime that is going virtually unreported.
#14607161
How is the US participating in the Saudi blockade of Yemen? If you have a beef about that I suggest to tell the Saudis. But you are so rabidly anti-American that you believe that the Potato famine was an American plot to suck up refugees.
#14607365
Drlee wrote:How is the US participating in the Saudi blockade of Yemen? If you have a beef about that I suggest to tell the Saudis.

The US is backing the Saudi bombing. The Saudis wouldn't be doing any bombing without US approval.
#14607393
The US is backing the Saudi bombing. The Saudis wouldn't be doing any bombing without US approval.


Good Lord people. Here is a news flash.

The Saudis are not the US. It is not our 51st state. The American people do not even like the Saudi's very much. You can't blame the US for the actions of every nation with which it has relations.

Look at real history for a change. Do you see much evidence that we are good at controlling what the Saudis do? Google 9-11.

Here is the official US stance on the Saudi intervention in Yemen:

Although the United States has not committed combat forces to the conflict, it is playing an important role. On the diplomatic front, the United States has played an important and laudable role in working to bring the warring parties to the table. The Obama administration must now work with Yemen’s neighbors and the rest of the international community to establish secure routes for the delivery of humanitarian aid, push for an end to hostilities, reach an internationally-supported political settlement, and build a comprehensive material and economic reconstruction plan. The US must also work with other members of the United Nations Security Council, which has been circumvented by the Saudi-led coalition, to ensure that any further military intervention in Yemen complies with Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter.


Military intervention:
● The US must immediately suspend its logistical and technical support for Saudi and coalition airstrikes, which do not meet legal standards regarding the protection of civilians or distinction between combatants and noncombatants, and halt any pending transfers of ordnance or other materiel to coalition states.
● The US must take all measures at its disposal to discourage unlawful attacks against Yemeni civilians, or military actions which place civilians at undue risk.


Does that sound like we are supporting the Saudis?


It is time Muslims learn to take responsibility for their own actions and stop looking for the bogey man in the closet. These problems could all be handled if the regional powers would stop fucking with one another and find a way to peace. But they won't because they believe that acting like 15th century tribal powers is god's way.
#14607431
It's totally naive to believe that the US didn't approve of the bombing. They have in no way restrained the Saudis while at the same time warning Iran to stay out off it.

It's enough to look at Western news coverage to know that the Saudis are merely acting as a US proxy. The bombing got very low coverage in Western media, and if it is reported, it is usually presented as if the Saudi's were doing the right thing.

The Saudis were also able to stop an investigation of human rights abuse in Yemen by the UN human rights agency. They couldn't have done that without Western support.
#14607503
Atlantis wrote:It's totally naive to believe that the US didn't approve of the bombing. They have in no way restrained the Saudis while at the same time warning Iran to stay out off it.


The Saudis are not ours to restrict. Are you advocating for us to intervene in Middle Eastern Events? Or just the ones in which you would like us to intervene?


It's enough to look at Western news coverage to know that the Saudis are merely acting as a US proxy. The bombing got very low coverage in Western media, and if it is reported, it is usually presented as if the Saudi's were doing the right thing.


Nonsense. It is all over out news. NPR and the NYT critical of the bombing are the first two on a google search.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/world/middleeast/saudis-faces-mounting-pressure-over-civilian-deaths-in-yemen-conflict.html?_r=0




The Saudis were also able to stop an investigation of human rights abuse in Yemen by the UN human rights agency. They couldn't have done that without Western support.


Read the article above:

The United Nations has been trying to investigate human rights violations by all sides in the Yemen war. But Saudi Arabia and its Arab allies have tried to block any international inquiry.

Saudi Arabia has repeatedly dismissed accusations that airstrikes are killing civilians and has instead blamed the Houthis for the deaths.


Time the ME nations took responsibility for their own region. But when they do they are called "US Puppets". This is not the US doing. Do we help them? Maybe. Perhaps you think that Yemen would fare better under the Houthies.
#14607612
Come on DrLee, everyone knows Saudi is a puppet state. If they're bombing Yemen, their masters not only approve but probably directed it. Saudi Arabia couldn't give two hoots about the situation in Yemen. In fact last time they intervened it was on the side of the predecessors of the Houthis, because that's what their masters instructed them to do.
#14607616
To keep on topic, this appears to be the deliberate bombing of a hospital by the US. While the US continues to blame Afghan forces, it was US weaponry, dropped by US forces, on a target known by the US to be a hospital. Despite any denials or attempts to confuse the issue by the Pentagon, it is crystal clear that this hospital was deliberately targeted.
What is yet to emerge is why the hospital was targeted. I suspect some high-ranking Taliban official was being treated at the hospital. If that turns out to be so, it does not excuse the bombing, but merely adds more evidence to the case that this was a war-crime deliberately committed by US forces.


Probably the best piece I've seen on this story so far, and on the response to it by US media is this, by the always excellent, Glenn Greenwald.

https://theintercept.com/2015/10/05/the-radically-changing-story-of-the-u-s-airstrike-on-afghan-hospital-from-mistake-to-justification
#14607617
What is yet to emerge is why the hospital was targeted. I suspect some high-ranking Taliban official was being treated at the hospital. If that turns out to be so, it does not excuse the bombing, but merely adds more evidence to the case that this was a war-crime deliberately committed by US forces.


Yes.

However, I am sure obama and high level US command would not have sanctioned it. The press fallout (which was invevitable) is more important to him than killing a few taliban.

So perhaps someone lower down the chain? It will probably never be known at what level.
#14607903
It took a dark-skinned president to bomb the most successful economy in Africa (Libya).

Likewise, Canada's first francophone prime minister presided over the intentional destruction of French in most parts of Canada.

And this reveals something important about how Obama has been used to rebrand white privilege. To make it look inclusive and progressive, when in fact it's really backwards and superstitious.
#14607919
QatzelOk wrote:It took a dark-skinned president to bomb the most successful economy in Africa (Libya).

Oh dear! As always, Qatz is shooting from the hip.

Obama had the good sense to let the Brits and French do the bombing in Libya.

And how to mismanage the economy with Libya's enormous oil wealth, that is something so far removed from a "successful economy" that we would have to go to outer space to start to fathom it.

Likewise, Canada's first francophone prime minister presided over the intentional destruction of French in most parts of Canada.

You lucky devils. You want to go to a French colony to see what misery is really like.

And this reveals something important about how Obama has been used to rebrand white privilege.

I don't think Obama would qualify as a saint, but in all fairness, the guy just had to do damage control of the mess produced by his predecessor. And then he didn't even have control of foreign policy. It's the same hawks that run the show in Washington under Republicans as under Democrats. The logic of the empire does not change just because you have an erection.

Pictoria Buland: "Fuck the US"

Never forget Qatz, you are a proud member of the empire. You are compromised in the depth of your soul, not to speak of your pocket, of course.
#14607929
The logic of the empire does not change just because you have an erection.

Pictoria Buland: "Fuck the US"

#14607991
Drlee wrote:Good Lord people. Here is a news flash.

The Saudis are not the US. It is not our 51st state. The American people do not even like the Saudi's very much. You can't blame the US for the actions of every nation with which it has relations.

Look at real history for a change. Do you see much evidence that we are good at controlling what the Saudis do? Google 9-11.
No but come on, we the West who've been hand in glove with Saudis for a over a century now. We can hardly disown responsibility for the Saudis actions. We are the world's police force. We are the protectors of "liberalism" and democracy. Yet the fifth fleet sits in Bahrain, Saudi chairs the UN human rights council, we invite Saudis on the Charlie Hebdo demo. No its not just America, Britain and France have been up to their necks in it. We are the sworn defenders of Saudi and the other undemocratic, illiberal Gulf Sunni monarchies. The apologists for Saudi. The arms suppliers of Saudis. The diplomatic partners of Saudis. The operational military partners of the Saudis. Western governments and their electorates are fully responsible for Saudis actions as a dog owner is responsible for the actions of his rottweiler. If your rottweiler savages someone else kid, you can hardly get off by saying:

"Oh I'm not responsible. Sometimes he bites the hands of my own children. To be honest I don't even like him"
#14608001
Rich wrote:Saudi chairs the UN human rights council

Image


A Saudi devises a plan to hijack planes and use them to attack the US. He trains other Saudi's to carry out these plans, all funded with Saudi money. What does the US do? Attack Afghanistan Iraq and later Libya meanwhile millions worth of funding continues to stream out of Saudi Arabia and straight into ISIS hands each year. As long as America remain in allegiance with nations like Israel and Saudi Arabia what little credibility they may have had is wiped away.
#14608512
About why rich nations bombed Libya, Atlantis wrote:And how to mismanage the economy with Libya's enormous oil wealth, that is something so far removed from a "successful economy" that we would have to go to outer space to start to fathom it.

Yes, he used the oil money to fund education and health care for Libyans rather than giving it to US and European corporations in exchange for protection money. What a dumb guy.

Or, more accurately, what a brave guy.

To stand up to genocidal Western tyrants and their dumb, well-armed populations.

Hopefully, the dumbness of Western citizens will kill the empire before it does any more harm.

Nope. Almost none of the signatories is a scient[…]

@Drlee It seems odd that you cannot figure out[…]

“Iceworm”

"The United States has tested a new ground-b[…]

Ukrainegate

In a Democrat world with double standard laws tha[…]