Young Iraqis Overwhelmingly Consider US Their Enemy - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14670438
The Intercept wrote:MORE THAN 90 PERCENT of young people in Iraq consider the United States to be an enemy of their country, according to a new poll.

After years spent justifying the war as a “liberation” of the Iraqi people, the survey casts further doubt on the success of that endeavor.

The poll was conducted by Penn Schoen Berland, a public relations and market research firm co-founded by controversial strategist Mark Penn, and was sponsored by a Dubai-based affiliate of Burson Marsteller, once described as “the PR firm for evil.” Still, the undertaking, as outlined by organizers, sounds ambitious. It included 250 face-to-face interviews in three Iraqi cities, plus another 3,250 interviews in 15 other countries throughout the Arab world, all with men and women ages 18-24 “selected to provide an accurate reflection of each nation’s geographic and socio-economic make-up.” It claims an error rate of plus or minus 1.65 percent.

The survey found that overwhelming majorities of young people in Iraq, Yemen, and the Palestinian Territories consider the U.S. to be an enemy. In Gulf Arab states, on the other hand, perceptions of the United States were far more positive. Roughly 85 percent of those living in the Gulf say that they consider the U.S. to be an ally, with another 66 percent expressing the same view in North Africa.

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The results of the poll offer an interesting window into long-term perceptions of the Iraq War by Iraqis themselves. Advocates of the 2003 invasion often justified it by claiming post-Saddam Iraq would be an ally of U.S. interests in the region. In a speech leading up to the war, then-Vice President Dick Cheney cited experts who claimed Iraqis would “erupt in joy” over the invasion, predicting it would result in “strong bonds” created between the two countries. But years later, after hundreds of billions of dollars spent and more than a hundred thousand Iraqis dead, the United States is overwhelmingly considered an enemy by young men and women who were children when the war began.

In Yemen, too, where the U.S. conducted an assassination campaign via drones and special forces, and where for the past year the U.S. has supported bloody Saudi bombings, over 80 percent of respondents described the U.S. as an enemy. These figures are particularly worth noting since the Obama administration has repeatedly cited Yemen as a counterterrorism success story. In recent months, that country has been pummeled by American weapons that have blown up weddings, marketplaces, and rural villages. Far from aiding stability, attacks on the country have in fact helped al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, according to recent reports.

The poll also asked participants to weigh in on a variety of other issues, including the rise of Islamic State, sectarianism, and women’s rights. Participants overwhelmingly rejected ISIS, predicting that it would fail in its goal of remaking the region and would be insupportable even if it didn’t resort to extreme violence. Most worried that sectarianism was increasing in the region and would prove an obstacle to stability. Across both genders, strong majorities said that rulers must do more to promote women’s rights in their countries.

But from an American perspective, the report’s most salient features pertain to anti-Americanism among young Arabs abroad.

“For years, many have argued that Muslims and Arabs, like other humans, don’t appreciate being bombed or occupied,” says Haroon Moghul, a fellow at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding. “Finally, we have a study to confirm this suspicion.”


We knew this, of course, but I think it's worth pointing out the bill-of-goods that was sold at the time:

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W wrote:In the images of celebrating Iraqis we have also seen the ageless appeal of human freedom. Decades of lies and intimidation could not make the Iraqi people love their oppressors or desire their own enslavement.

Men and women in every culture need liberty like they need food and water and air. Everywhere that freedom arrives, humanity rejoices and everywhere that freedom stirs, let tyrants fear.

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We're bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We're pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime who will be held to account for their crimes. We've begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons, and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated.

We are helping to rebuild Iraq where the dictator built palaces for himself instead of hospitals and schools.
#14670453
“For years, many have argued that Muslims and Arabs, like other humans, don’t appreciate being bombed or occupied,” says Haroon Moghul, a fellow at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding. “Finally, we have a study to confirm this suspicion.”

#14670460
The only weapons of mass destruction were Clinton&Bush Inc.,imo. Allthis todo about Reagan is BS, Reagan gave us amensty and Co.North who helped build up radical islam . My opinion from what I've seen from all of them.

Our nation has been handing over other nations to radicals for decades, no president since JF Kennedy and compared to these dictators we've had since he was a ultra conservative.
#14670475
The poll also asked participants to weigh in on a variety of other issues, including the rise of Islamic State, sectarianism, and women’s rights. Participants overwhelmingly rejected ISIS, predicting that it would fail in its goal of remaking the region and would be insupportable even if it didn’t resort to extreme violence. Most worried that sectarianism was increasing in the region and would prove an obstacle to stability. Across both genders, strong majorities said that rulers must do more to promote women’s rights in their countries.



That part is a great interest. It seems there is support for victory against the radical scum in the middle east.

Unfortunately, it also seems similar to Vietnam, the unloseable war. When the USA first entered the Vietnam conflict, they enjoyed the overwhelming support of the South Vietnamese, who viewed the North as their traditional foes. A counter insurgence can't be lost with the support of the population. Thanks to a ruthless regime and American indifference, the government of the South lost the confidence and loyalty of their own people and the Vietcong were able to gain traction in the villages. Finally, the Americans sent in so many troops than they sent themselves broke. So the unloseable war was lost.



But from an American perspective, the report’s most salient features pertain to anti-Americanism among young Arabs abroad.

“For years, many have argued that Muslims and Arabs, like other humans, don’t appreciate being bombed or occupied,” says Haroon Moghul, a fellow at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding. “Finally, we have a study to confirm this suspicion.”


OK, this is too funny. I have to joke. Correlation doesn't prove causation.
#14670476
Well. Dont worry about just Iraq, i think probably half the world sees Americans as either a threat or an enemy.
Most people i know would enjoy watching Americans in general being slaughtered.
the way i see it, i my self am anti-American and the US is going the exact direction i wish it to go.
A slow painful death that is.
#14732459
I remember my argument in 2003: "Don't worry no one will be thanking America."

Lefties and their discontented fascist isolationist friends would have you believe that they predicted this outcome. They didn't. BTW I'm quite happy to admit that back in early 2003, I didn't predict the Taliban's resurgence or just how evil Sunni Islam was even though I was part of the pre 9/11 Islamophobic vanguard. You have to remember that in the beginning of 2003, the Taliban seemed deader than Monty python's parrot. Iraq came after a succession of "successful" regime changes: Grenada, Panama, Kosovo and apparently Afghanistan. No the left's fear was that Iraq would be a success allowing the Bush administration to go on to to Damascus and Tehran. There was certainly no argument that Sunni Arabs were so evil that they needed to be ruled by a psychopath like Saddam. No quite the reverse, we supporters of the invasion were castigated for leaving those wonderful secular Sunni Arabs in the hands of the backward "theocratic" Shia.

This scare mongering annoyed me as I was confident that the Neo Cons were utterly full of shit and their talk off attacking Iran was nothing but hot air. "This train terminates in Bagdad" was another of my precient predictions. Since 2003 their has been no major ground invasion of any country by the United States.

I also predicted "the Americans would invade, hand power to the Shia and leave."
Veni, vici, derelictus
#14732542
The Immortal Goon wrote:“For years, many have argued that Muslims and Arabs, like other humans, don’t appreciate being bombed,” says Haroon Moghul, a fellow at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding. “Finally, we have a study to confirm this suspicion.”


Unless they're strapping said bomb on themselves.
#14732561
Diligent wrote:Unless they're strapping said bomb on themselves.


I think thats an unfair comment.

There are two groups of arabs that strap bombs to themselves time to time,

1 very small group is group that has been for 70 year fighting watching their land stolen and grabbed from under feet by a very powerful occupation force that tortures , kills their kids and discrimantes against them.
This group you cant really blame, they are fighting with all they have and all they have are home made bombs and the means of its delivery is immaterial be it a missile of a human being.....
If my country was occupied by a more powerful force not for interim but for ever, then Id do the same if I had to.

the second group though are much larger, much more scattered geographically and are only geared up to kill unsuspecting civilians where ever they are. These are sorry sad individuals who are sucked into and consumed by a sect (as all religions are) who need to sourced out and taken out.

But here is a twist of Irony, The second group is financed and armed by the very same cartel of countries they declare as enemies, whos societies they infiltrate and plan an attacks on.

go figur

Edit, Bet you think im an arab now..... far from it,
#14732642
anasawad wrote:Well. Dont worry about just Iraq, i think probably half the world sees Americans as either a threat or an enemy.
Most people i know would enjoy watching Americans in general being slaughtered.
the way i see it, i my self am anti-American and the US is going the exact direction i wish it to go.
A slow painful death that is.


Don't worry, you are soon going to hate whichever country usurping the place the United States has been in the past few decades.
#14732654
anasawad wrote:@Patrickov
:lol: :lol: :lol:
'm gonna hate my own people and our allies ?
Damn this place is becoming hillarious.


Why not? I did almost just the same thing, just 15-25 years too early.
#14732661
@Patrickov
Naaah man, see i dont hate the US and the far west because of their actions, i hate them because of their hypocracy.

See, i know my people are imperialists, and i accept that. After all our system, and our centuries old allies, have served both the people and our neighboring populations for ages, while retaining the least amount of losses for anyone, atleast those who are submitted and wont try to backstab us.
And we all are ok admitting our former actions and our history, in its good and bad periods.

But thats not the case with westerners.
See, western Imperialists are just as bad or probably even worse than we are since they did much more damage to much more people.
But instead of admitting to their history and their actions. They keep these images that they're the good guys, and how they are all about freedom and democracy and rightous and the regular bullshit and how anything wrong that happens is the fault of everyone else but them even if it resulted from their actions or worse done directly by them.

You can see that clear as sun just by looking at western media or heck, even just following the forum here.

For example, just a while back here not sure who was posting but there was a talk about how the transatlantic slave trade was not only acceptable but also not even the fault of western empires. Not that many sides take responsibility but western empires take the leading responsibility. No, no responsibility at all.
Thats just fucking stupid and hypocratic and it is kind of an insult to assume everyone is that stupid to accept such talk.

If we want to bring an example from our history (persian), lets look at the timurid empire. It was built by my own tribe, and sure we killed no less than 20 millions in building it, and we know its bad and accept it as part of our history, but we still see that it re-established 2 empires that kept 100s of millions of people living quite well for ages after its time, so we accept it as a thing for the greater good, just as many before it.


Westerners are the exact opposite, most of the mainstream media and populations atleast. Pure hypocracy, they're always the good guys and criticize everyone and everyone else is just bad and criminals and evil and anything that happens is never their fault nor any of their responsibility.
#14732670
anasawad wrote:@Patrickov
Naaah man, see i dont hate the US and the far west because of their actions, i hate them because of their hypocracy.

See, i know my people are imperialists, and i accept that. After all our system, and our centuries old allies, have served both the people and our neighboring populations for ages, while retaining the least amount of losses for anyone, atleast those who are submitted and wont try to backstab us.
And we all are ok admitting our former actions and our history, in its good and bad periods.

But thats not the case with westerners.
See, western Imperialists are just as bad or probably even worse than we are since they did much more damage to much more people.
But instead of admitting to their history and their actions. They keep these images that they're the good guys, and how they are all about freedom and democracy and rightous and the regular bullshit and how anything wrong that happens is the fault of everyone else but them even if it resulted from their actions or worse done directly by them.

You can see that clear as sun just by looking at western media or heck, even just following the forum here.

For example, just a while back here not sure who was posting but there was a talk about how the transatlantic slave trade was not only acceptable but also not even the fault of western empires. Not that many sides take responsibility but western empires take the leading responsibility. No, no responsibility at all.
Thats just fucking stupid and hypocratic and it is kind of an insult to assume everyone is that stupid to accept such talk.

If we want to bring an example from our history (persian), lets look at the timurid empire. It was built by my own tribe, and sure we killed no less than 20 millions in building it, and we know its bad and accept it as part of our history, but we still see that it re-established 2 empires that kept 100s of millions of people living quite well for ages after its time, so we accept it as a thing for the greater good, just as many before it.


Westerners are the exact opposite, most of the mainstream media and populations atleast. Pure hypocracy, they're always the good guys and criticize everyone and everyone else is just bad and criminals and evil and anything that happens is never their fault nor any of their responsibility.



Your country has, at least in the recent years, become an object of my admiration. No matter how problematic the place has become, your people somewhat find a way to get through it.

However, I'm sorry that I can't agree with your view on the West. Maybe because the people in power here in the Middleearth are even more hypocritical than the Westerners.

At least the Western media and people did not hesitate to show us their shortcomings, and their oligarchs didn't manage / try to shut them up.

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