Origins of Islamic Terrorism - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14689964
Dave wrote:Relying on America to protect you from Russia seems rather like Poland relying on Britain and France to protect them in 1939.

Estonia is very far away from America and Russia has absolute superiority in the region. Russia could overrun your entire country in a few hours. By law of geography Estonia is necessarily in the sphere of Russia. Only Germany could change this, but Germans aren't interested in that role anymore.

How many Americans are willing to die for Reval?

The crazed neocohens who carry hatred of Russia in their blood are seeing their moment pass, but even if they keep their hold on power...is America poking a stick in Russia's eye really good for your country's security?


Poking the Russian is definitely not something that should be done. That is why i said 'Thank Obama' to the Ukrainian situation. But the situation is what it is so there is not much that we can do about it. It is not like we are confronting the Russians from our side(Estonia).

In case of war, we do not really stand a chance in any particular way be it human or material resources. So the only choice we really have is to create a stable alliance. Poland had a population but not the materials needed to stop Germany in 1939. Estonia doesn't have both population nor the materials. An alliance with the guy with the biggest Club around is the only choice for us.

Germany also can't really fix this situation since they would be in the same situation as the US. They might be closer to us but defending us is problematic since we are so small and seperated by Sea from anybody else. We can hold out for 2 weeks(this is the plan for us) until Nato/allies arrive. We are not really planning to fight anybody head on seriously, we will scatter to the forests and hold the islands. The whole point of this is to make an attack on us more costly for anybody who wishes to attack us. Death of Nato troops on our territory would be a conflict with Nato which Russia can't afford which makes an invasion of Estonia more costly than any benefit it can bring.
Last edited by JohnRawls on 14 Jun 2016 16:50, edited 1 time in total.
#14689965
Why isn't cooperation with Russia an option?

I assume a fundamental lack of trust due to historical memory?

Alliance with America itself creates security risks for Estonia. If America escalates things too far with Russia, Russia may retaliate where it enjoys local superiority. Of course this is risky for Russia, but at a certain point in bear baiting the bear bites back.
#14689967
The choice is between EU/US/Nato vs Russia. Why would we choose Russia if they are not the strongest guy around, not to mention the economical benefits of being allied with the US/EU?

It pretty much impossible to be allied with both.
#14689975
Dave wrote:Relying on America to protect you from Russia seems rather like Poland relying on Britain and France to protect them in 1939.

Estonia is very far away from America and Russia has absolute superiority in the region. Russia could overrun your entire country in a few hours. By law of geography Estonia is necessarily in the sphere of Russia. Only Germany could change this, but Germans aren't interested in that role anymore.

How many Americans are willing to die for Reval?

The crazed neocohens who carry hatred of Russia in their blood are seeing their moment pass, but even if they keep their hold on power...is America poking a stick in Russia's eye really good for your country's security?


Russia has no interest in a war with NATO so there is no need for Americans to die to protect Estonia. What there is, is a need for Americans to show that they are willing to die to defend Estonia. Russia would only consider invading Estonia if it believed NATO would fail to respond.

I recently read a book called "2017 The War With Russia" by General Sir Richard Shirreff which explores exactly that. It's not a literary masterpiece, but it does illustrate the stakes quite clearly.

The geography is not that big a deal, the US is quite capable of deploying enough forces to the Baltic's make invasion untenable to Russia.
#14690156
Rei Murasame wrote:Femen have painted "Stop Islam's Ambition" onto themselves, and attacked Tariq Ramadan by slapping him in the face repeatedly with burkhas.

They were then arrested.

I think Voltaire had a quote about this kind of thing.

:roll: What does that have to do with the threadtopic we're discussing?
#14690160
Who cares at this point? This thread is basically like a piece of art and can be interpreted any way that the reader likes. The truth of the event will never really be known, and in fact, truth is itself irrelevant.

In the span of the past 45,000 years of human history, all that matters is who tells the story and how the violence following the story will choose to express itself. Everyone is so wrapped up their own existence that they've actually forgotten that our existence has no inherent meaning and is in fact pointless.

People are constantly bitching about "don't use our tragedy to further your hatred of Muslims". I can do whatever the fuck I want, as it is my life and I will hate whoever I want to hate, and I'll encourage antagonistic contradictions for my own satisfaction wherever I want to do so. There is no morality in this life, because there is no meaning other than whatever we've decided the 'meaning' is today.
#14690223
This event just goes to show that immigrants can and do integrate with their host cultures. This chap was truly an American, I renounce all my anti immigration positions from now on.

But to be serious for a moment is anyone surprised? If you import right wing religious types you will get right wing religious behavior, people who import people from the worlds most right wing communities are to blame for this, the working class does not want them here in the west it is that simple. It took us centuries to crush our own native right wingers to the point where our societies were safe (ish) for women and gays we don't need more damn right wingers coming in and undoing all of the lefts good work.
#14690297
:lol: It is a blessing, these darlings are diversifying your lives. Here you were, thinking that you'd have the drab uniformity of a land in which everyone more or less agrees that shooting up various venues because they don't look like Saudi Arabia would be a crazy regressive thing to do. And then boom, diversity advocates were like, "Let's radically alter this reality, put on the nasheed, DJ!"



"Let's admit that they do have good march-into-the-sunset-of-martyrdom music, at least. They are at least getting close to Japanese or perhaps even Cambodian levels of fatalistic homicide-suicide now. We could just make it easy with 'nice diversity' and invite more of them into the country, but they are too privileged now, so fuck them. Muslims it is!"

It's unfortunate.
#14690393
Why should anyone want to take guns out of the hands of the working class?

On one hand we are all told that police are evil racist agents of the bourgeois state who just think it's so choice to prance around bashing marginalised people with batons and shooting them, but at the same time we are then told to disarm completely because those same police will protect us all from bad people.

Seems contradictory.
#14690396
Rei Murasame wrote:Why should anyone want to take guns out of the hands of the working class?


Ah, right. So if the bouncers were armed, or what have you, that would have prevented it?

That's a total hunch. And I doubt the club would have allowed patrons in with their personal weapons
#14690425
Decky wrote:Red carpet supports the Labour party Rei, he is not a socialist of course he wants to see the working class disarmed he is a red tory.


Pure made up tripe. I suggest you focus on the topic

You have to answer the question in the way that I posed it.


THAT would be diversion. If your point is that people that are working-class shouldn't have weapons, well, that's not the topic. Nor was I addressing that
#14690430
Well, fuck your conversation, frankly. I have no patience for anti-gun bullshit anymore, especially not from people who profess to be socialists, since I know that you know exactly what you are doing.

Look in a mirror and ask yourself what it is that you are actually arguing in favour of, rather than engaging me with this nonsense.
#14690434
Rei Murasame wrote:Well, fuck your conversation, frankly.


No one makes you post in this thread.

The topic isn't 'Do you think the working-class needs to be armed to have a revolution?' If that's the kind of things you're pointing to I don't see how you came to this thread other than to derail it. I doubt the dead care about Marxism but tight-control of gun access & social equality in laws & practice in the USA
#14690435
If those gays had been armed to the teeth how far do you think the right winger would have got? Probably not even into double figures. Tories like you always want the working class weak and defenceless so your fellow right wingers are free to attack them.
#14690445
Gun ownership bans has nothing to do with political ideology. Right-wing people are subject to gun bans the same as left-wing people, are you finished?

Admin Note: This thread has been sanitised of personal attacks, insinuations about the personal & sexual life of posters and moderators, if this thread does not stick on the topic of the victims in the night club, additional measures will be taken.

Please respect the memory of the dead and if you can not, stay away from this thread.


Match Trump's rhetoric if you want, but you'd be just as bad as he is in hijacking a tragedy for political point scoring and personal attacks that we're accustomed to read from you.

Nor is it conceivable basic law and order can be maintained if individuals have even more access to weapons in the USA that they do today. Which includes right-wing militias & the KKK. Don't see how it's a left-wing position to advocate 100% freedom on gun possesion. Massacres like this would just skyrocket anyway.

It's called State monopoly on violence.

State monopoly on violence, in political science and sociology, the concept that the state alone has the right to use or authorize the use of physical force. It is widely regarded as a defining characteristic of the modern state.
(1)

The monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force, also known as the monopoly on violence (German: Gewaltmonopol des Staates), is a core concept of modern public law, which goes back to Jean Bodin's 1576 work Les Six livres de la République and Thomas Hobbes' 1651 book Leviathan.[citation needed] As the defining conception of the state, it was first described in sociology by Max Weber in his essay Politics as a Vocation (1919).[1] Weber claims that the state is the "only human Gemeinschaft which lays claim to the monopoly on the legitimated use of physical force. However, this monopoly is limited to a certain geographical area, and in fact this limitation to a particular area is one of the things that defines a state."[2] In other words, Weber describes the state as any organization that succeeds in holding the exclusive right to use, threaten, or authorize physical force against residents of its territory. Such a monopoly, according to Weber, must occur via a process of legitimation.
(2)

1 http://www.britannica.com/topic/state-monopoly-on-violence
2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
#14690475
redcarpet wrote:It's called State monopoly on violence.

(1)

(2)

1 http://www.britannica.com/topic/state-monopoly-on-violence
2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence


The state monopoly on violence means diddly squat if they state is perceived as being unwilling or incapable of acting on the threats to its authority (and citizenry). And since the left has paralysed state security apparatus from correctly dealing with this problem through targeted restrictive measures on a particular religious group, the problem will continue to get worse and worse. And people (and more importantly, state security apparatus itself, which ends up in the unenviable position of acting ineffectually and arresting AND RELEASING said culprits) will lose faith in an inept, impotent leadership hamstrung by a myopic ruling ideology.

I'd hate to be a native European in a district dominated by Muslims designated "no-go" zones for first responders. There's only so much people will take before they lose faith in the state and start placing confidence in RIGHT WING DEATHSQUADS

Watching Europe from the comfort of another country is great entertainment.
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