[mikema63]

No, China's relationship with NK has been deteriorating for a long time now.

[foxdemon]

@anasawad

This is why I think that Iran shouldn't be anti-west but should not rely on the West for trading partners and should take a more pragmatic approach to foreign policy and diplomacy. This is especially the case for a Trump America.

Pragmatic foreign policy? Would that go so far as to include recognising the Israeli state? Such a policy reversal from Tehran would go a long way to reducing tensions with the Americans.

[Oxymandias]

@foxdemon

No. The US would still not engage in any diplomatic interactions with Iran. Particularly the Trump administration. Furthermore it would destroy any attempts at diplomacy with Middle Eastern countries and Central Asia which are the regions most relevant to Iran and the regions Iran needs to create stronger ties with. Israel is also not popular with Iranians and such an action could potentially cause a revolution or the impeachment of the current administration.

I also don't care about reducing "tensions" with Americans since A. that's your problem and B. that implies that Iran has a large amount of influence over the US which is laughable given that they are on two different continents.

[foxdemon]

@foxdemon

No. The US would still not engage in any diplomatic interactions with Iran. Particularly the Trump administration. Furthermore it would destroy any attempts at diplomacy with Middle Eastern countries and Central Asia which are the regions most relevant to Iran and the regions Iran needs to create stronger ties with. Israel is also not popular with Iranians and such an action could potentially cause a revolution or the impeachment of the current administration.

I also don't care about reducing "tensions" with Americans since A. that's your problem and B. that implies that Iran has a large amount of influence over the US which is laughable given that they are on two different continents.

Oh I see. So not 'that' pragmatic, then? Maybe better relations with Israel is a bit too ambitious at this time. So what about talking peace with Saudi Arabia and moving toward normalising relations? The Americans might see that as a positive development and soften their attitudes toward Iran as a result.

[Oxymandias]

@foxdemon

What about it isn't pragmatic? I took several factors into consideration, Iranian's thoughts on Israel, Iran's surrounding environment, Iran's current diplomatic status, and Iran's relationship with the US. Then I made a decision. It seems that the only reason why you think it isn't pragmatic is because it's against your interests but isn't against Iran's. You dislike what I am saying because your American, and to you, negotiations with Israel is good for America so you apply that to Iran.

That currently is also impossible. A majority of Iran is Shia and Saudi Arabia is fervently anti-Shia given that they are Wahhabist. Also Americans don't see Saudi Arabia positively. If Americans saw Saudi Arabia - Iran diplomacy they wouldn't think much of it and most of them would just talk about how horrible Saudi Arabia or Iran is.

I also find the fact that you use American opinions as a bargaining tool annoying, as if I give two flying fucks about what Americans think when it isn't relevant in the slightest. The US's interactions won't be based on the opinions of Americans, it would be based on the opinions of greed.

[MistyTiger]

I like that Trump had no choice but to sign the sanctions bill. I bet he was pouting and his piggy snout stuck out more than usual. He needs to understand that he is not in power to do everything that he wants to do. He has to compromise and cave in to pressure now and then, especially if it is in the best interests for the US. He does not need to please Russia or kiss their feet.

[foxdemon]

@foxdemon

What about it isn't pragmatic? I took several factors into consideration, Iranian's thoughts on Israel, Iran's surrounding environment, Iran's current diplomatic status, and Iran's relationship with the US. Then I made a decision. It seems that the only reason why you think it isn't pragmatic is because it's against your interests but isn't against Iran's. You dislike what I am saying because your American, and to you, negotiations with Israel is good for America so you apply that to Iran.

That currently is also impossible. A majority of Iran is Shia and Saudi Arabia is fervently anti-Shia given that they are Wahhabist. Also Americans don't see Saudi Arabia positively. If Americans saw Saudi Arabia - Iran diplomacy they wouldn't think much of it and most of them would just talk about how horrible Saudi Arabia or Iran is.

I also find the fact that you use American opinions as a bargaining tool annoying, as if I give two flying fucks about what Americans think when it isn't relevant in the slightest. The US's interactions won't be based on the opinions of Americans, it would be based on the opinions of greed.

It is true that Saudis aren't viewed that favourably in the west. Yet they have been pragmatic enough to find common ground with Israel, as has Turkey and Egypt. Yet Iran hasn't.

I think the American position does matter because they are the ones putting sanctions on you. Therefore other countries, who might trade with your country, now can't trade. You have oil, other countries have yummy food. Sheep, wheat, makes nice roti and lamb....yum! What a shame Iranians have to be so stubborn. All it would take is a simple recognition of Israel's right to exist and the current unfortunate situation could be resolved.

Also, why do you think I am American?

[anasawad]

@foxdemon
Bullshit.
Iran offered the US and Israel peace in 1995 and again in 2004, both were rejected from their side.
They want 1- control over the oil. And 2- a weak push around Iran due to its strategic position in one hand and its vast resources on the other.


And we have all types of goods. Your understanding of the situation is lacking at best.


For the opinions of the American people, it is simply irrelevant since they're not the ones holding the power. If 300 million Americans suddenly wanted to be best friends with Iran and the oligarchs didn't want to, the 300 million Americans can go fuck them selves because their opinions in the topic are irrelevant.

[foxdemon]

1995? When Clinton admin put sanctions on Iran for trying to get WMD, ballistic missiles and supporting terrorist activities.

2004? When the US offered for Iran to send a negotiater to America to solve all issues but Tehran walked away.

In recent times efforts have continued to bring Tehran to the table. There has been a nuclear prevention agreement in place, now under threat. Why? Because Tehran still working on ballistic missiles and supporting terrorist activities. Even the Europeans are concerned about that.

So our side is trying.

Given the sanctions are very limited in scope, just targeting those involved in ballistic missile technology or activities involving the IRGC, I can't see how a reasonable person could possibly have a problem with it.

[Political Interest]

They want 1- control over the oil. And 2- a weak push around Iran due to its strategic position in one hand and its vast resources on the other.

But this is against the interests of America. It benefits a small segment of the American population. And if you think that a country cannot secure its energy interests without being militarily involved in the Middle East then look at China, Japan and Korea, along with the majority of the world. Americans gain nothing from meddling in this region and their support for Israel is also against their interests.

[One Degree]

The US does not need Iran's oil. The US does wish to control Iran's behavior, just like Iran wants to control its neighbors. There is no real difference. Iran is guilty of the very things it hates America for.

[anasawad]

@foxdemon
You fucken kidding me ? Atleast bother to search history before writting.
In both the mid 90s and early 2000s. Iran gave 2 peace offers one to Israel and one to the US.
Both were rejected from your side. Literally the US rejected the first rapprochement with Israel, and George Bush rejected the second.
Its your side that actively rejected peace for decades. And even now when the nuclear deal came as another chance, you broke it already.

And why the fuck is it any of the US's business to interfere in our missile program ? Why do you have one but no one else can ?

[Oxymandias]

@foxdemon

Pretty much everything @anasawad said. Iran has tried to create peace with Israel and they were rejected. This is because unlike Arabia, Turkey, and Egypt, Iran isn't in the US's sphere of influence. Iran is basically like another Russia or China. A, from an Western point of view, rogue nation when Iran has never demonstrated itself as such.

No, that's not how it works. Simply recognizing Israel isn't going to make the US release sanctions because it doesn't give anything to the US, it's only positive to Israel. If you really wanted to improve US relations you would essentially have to make Iran into a puppet state. And Iran isn't just one giant desert, half of the country is green while the desert portion of Iran is only semi-desert so you can plant crops there as well. Also since no one wants this oil and since Iran possess an abundance of oil, we can just nationalize the oil and give all this oil to ourselves.

Furthermore stop with that patronizing attitude. If you continue to act in such a repulsive way I may end this discussion here. The US has no right to stop others from having missile programs and Europe would have it's own if not for NATO.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Pretty much everything @anasawad said. Iran has tried to create peace with Israel and they were rejected. This is because unlike Arabia, Turkey, and Egypt, Iran isn't in the US's sphere of influence. Iran is basically like another Russia or China. A, from an Western point of view, rogue nation when Iran has never demonstrated itself as such.

Iran never wanted any peace with Israel since the Islamic revolution in 1979 until the mullahs came to power Israel and Iran were fine there were no hostilities

[Ned Lud]

The US does not need Iran's oil. The US does wish to control Iran's behavior, just like Iran wants to control its neighbors. There is no real difference. Iran is guilty of the very things it hates America for.

As in so many other matters, as you point out elsewhere, 'the US' has no general interests in bullying Iran,. Certain powerful individuals, however, carry enough weight to have the US as a power-bloc serve their greed.

[Oxymandias]

@Zionist Nationalist

They did during the 1970s to 80s. Also your implication that everything became horrible when the Iranian Revolution happened is false. Iranians since then have higher living standards, better education, and more jobs. While Iranian women have to wear hijabs which is a downside, quality of life for Iranian women in some ways improved after the revolution with Iranian women have significantly higher literacy rates than ever before, Iranian women being able to attend college and university, Iranian women are also now about to have jobs that are comparable to men, and Iranian women represent 70% of all engineering students in Iranian universities.

@One Degree

I think you're mistaking influence for control. Iran has lots of influence, it just doesn't utilize it. Iran never sets out to control it's neighbors and only has a limited amount of influence.

[One Degree]

@Zionist Nationalist

They did during the 1970s to 80s. Also your implication that everything became horrible when the Iranian Revolution happened is false. Iranians since then have higher living standards, better education, and more jobs. While Iranian women have to wear hijabs which is a downside, quality of life for Iranian women in some ways improved after the revolution with Iranian women have significantly higher literacy rates than ever before, Iranian women being able to attend college and university, Iranian women are also now about to have jobs that are comparable to men, and Iranian women represent 70% of all engineering students in Iranian universities.

@One Degree

I think you're mistaking influence for control. Iran has lots of influence, it just doesn't utilize it. Iran never sets out to control it's neighbors and only has a limited amount of influence.

I based that on your and @anasawad discussing how you were going to take over your neighbors.

[Zionist Nationalist]

@Oxymandias

[Oxymandias]

@One Degree

That's more of a pipe dream thing. And if you did read that you would know that I said Iran only had influence over Iraq and Syria, just like every other country in the MidEast.

[Oxymandias]

@Zionist Nationalist

1. No one in Iran wears that at all. Or at least in modern Iran. You only see people wearing that stuff in extremely conservative households or in conservative private schools.

2. I said that women are forced to wear hijabs already but clothing is less important compared to higher women's education, more women's jobs, and better opportunities for women.

You're being ignorant and moronic here Zionist, just like usual.