Trump says Russia should be at G7 meeting - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14922512
BeheadTheFrog wrote:I have no great love for the G7 but why are people objecting to Russian involvement in this meeting? They have always been a part of it as far as I remember.

That the Italian Prime Minister supports Trump is no big story. The two Parties he is representing are the neo-fascist Northern League and the Trump loving Five Star Movement. These are both anti-European Union and anti-immigration political parties... President Donald Trump can expect their support in all but the most exceptional circumstances.
Russia was ousted from G8 after it annexed Crimea.
#14922526
B0ycey wrote:I suppose he is right then. But Trump doing Brexit would only mean 'Hard Brexit' with the EU paying for the wall. :lol:

The EU would pay a lot for sure. :lol:

He would always imitate Churchill's wartime rhetoric and rewriting history would be his favourite hobby.

BeheadTheFrog wrote:But Crimea has always been Russian.

It became part of the Russian Empire in 1783, it had belonged to the Ottoman Empire for 300 years before that.
#14922537
BeheadTheFrog wrote:I have no great love for the G7 but why are people objecting to Russian involvement in this meeting? They have always been a part of it as far as I remember.


They were cast Russia out of the Group of 8 industrialized democracies, to punish President Vladimir V. Putin for his annexation of Crimea, while threatening tougher sanctions if he escalates aggression against Ukraine.

Also, Russia is being accused of meddling in Holland politics, the UK's and America's. Other than Trump, little support is at hand

Furthermore, Russia hardly in a position to be regarded as "G" material anymore. They are dependent on oil and natural gas for income. For 10 years, they've been in trouble. But they aren't being stung for tariffs on steel and aluminium. Apparently China and Russia aren't a national security threat, whereas the rest of us are, in spite of all America's planes and ships etc containing metals and components. I wonder if America realises it just cut a massive chunk out of its military budget.
#14922543
Beren wrote:So you thought 1783 had been the beginning of history in Crimea? What you said was the same as saying there was no France before the revolution.


You’re being a pedant and adding nothing to the discussion. If you are making a relevant wider point, which I am missing, then please explain and I will answer.
#14922545
BeheadTheFrog wrote:You’re being a pedant and adding nothing to the discussion. If you are making a relevant wider point, which I am missing, then please explain and I will answer.

How about Crimea just wasn't always Russian? That's exactly I've added to the discussion.
#14922547
Beren wrote:How about Crimea just wasn't always Russian? That's exactly I've added to the discussion.


In the context of the discussion and the length of time it was actually Russian (200+ years), I think that justifies the use of the term “always”.

Other than that, if I am wrong on “always” being a justified descriptor, it matters not, as it doesnt detract from any point I have made.
#14922555
BeheadTheFrog wrote:In the context of the discussion and the length of time it was actually Russian (200+ years), I think that justifies the use of the term “always”.

Other than that, if I am wrong on “always” being a justified descriptor, it matters not, as it doesnt detract from any point I have made.

When once I said the Carpathian Basin had always been Hungarian, then a Serb had the nerve to correct me that it was Slavic before, so I was wrong to believe that 1,100 years are supposed to mean always. :lol:

However, 1783 wasn't so long ago, it wasn't 300 years ago actually, which means it had belonged to the Ottomans for a longer period of time than the Russians. And if you really knew that then you were especially wrong to use "always" regardless of whether what point you made, which meant to be a pro-Russian point I guess.
#14922557
Beren wrote:When once I said the Carpathian Basin had always been Hungarian, then a Serb had the nerve to correct me that it was Slavic before, so I was wrong to believe that 1,100 years are supposed to mean always. :lol:

However, 1783 wasn't so long ago, it wasn't 300 years ago actually, which means it had belonged to the Ottomans for a longer period of time than the Russians. And if you really knew that then you were especially wrong to use "always" regardless of whether what point you made, which meant to be a pro-Russian point I guess.


If I was arguing that the Russians should have it over the Ottomans then I wouldnt have said always. But the Ottomans are actually irrelevant to the discussion.

Thats it. No more.
#14922558
BeheadTheFrog wrote:If I was arguing that the Russians should have it over the Ottomans then I wouldnt have said always. But the Ottomans are actually irrelevant to the discussion.

Thats it. No more.

The Ottomans are irrelevant? I wonder if Erdogan is aware of that. :lol:

You just neglected all pre-modern history of Crimea like it wouldn't have even existed before it became part of the Russian Empire, although its earlier history is somewhat relevant to the Crimea issue.

That's it. No more.
#14922559
B0ycey wrote:Under Trump, you have a one party system

? ummm there are these folks called democrats ? Hillary Clinton, does she ring a bell? And I'd hesitate to call Republicans "Trumps Party." I think that's still up for grabs.

directed by a dictator,

Nah, just a wantabee.

devoted to destroying Russia

More like devoted to destroying Putin I think.

and dominating the world.

We've been trying for some time now to get out of that position, the world is not cooperating.

Zam
#14922560
Zamuel wrote:? ummm there are these folks called democrats ? Hillary Clinton, does she ring a bell?


My comment was more in regards to the house and senate - which is led by one party. But are you aware there was a Russian election not so long ago? Trump congratulated Putin on his victory btw. Not that communism is against democracy I might add. It is more an economic rather than a political system.

Talking about democracy, how democratic is it that the least voted candidate can still win an election?
#14922569
Beren wrote:How about Crimea just wasn't always Russian? That's exactly I've added to the discussion.
By that logic, nothing was ever anyones'. Turkey was never Turkish, Hungary was never Hungarian and so on. Relative to modern history Russia has good reason to lay claim on Crimea. Also on all of Ukraine and Belarus for that matter.

The people of Rus' shall unite as one!
#14922570
Albert wrote:By that logic, nothing was ever anyones'. Turkey was never Turkish, Hungary was never Hungarian and so on. Relative to modern history Russia has good reason to lay claim on Crimea. Also on all of Ukraine and Belarus for that matter.

Nobody says Crimea was never Russian, for that matter, it's just not as much Russian as "always" suggests. It's a recurring argument even used by people who know it's untrue.
#14922572
Russian people shall be united! My ancestors did not fight for nothing for centuries to liberate Belorussians and (ungrateful) Ukrainians (in government), from the Poles-Lithuanians and Turks.

Brghghtgh!


To be given away to some gay loving Eurocrat jerks in the west. That kill their own nations by importing millions of foreigners.

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