[Boondock Saint]

Afghanistan is a ball still up in the air ... our intention there wasnt really to free the people of Afghanistan ... sure, topple the taliban why not? But we wanted to kill Al Qaida guys ... and the taliban got in our way ... so they die too ...

As far as what happens in that rock hole who knows, it would be nice if the US and/or western nations put some effort into rebuilding it some ...

Iraq ... personally I dont much care if democracy is the issue or not, Saddam wasnt working out for us ... something had to change ... there were two options, drop the sanctions and turn a blind eye to whatever Saddam wanted to do or get rid of him and do something else with the country ...

Maybe a nice people freindly regime? Or at least one that doesnt gas the kurds ... hell, for all I care the kurds can take over Iraq ... I like them enough.

At any rate all teh speculation in the world wont do a damn thing ... we have to wait and see what happens ...

Now, an interim gov't will be put in place after Saddam is toppled of course ... its not like you can topple Saddam on Thursday and hold elections on Friday ...

Either way I am all for the toppling of Saddam.

[Proctor]

Now you are being more reasonable Boondock. If read posts with an open mind without preassuming what will be said as you did with CasX, you would probably find he agrees with you. I think everyone on these boards.

I really would appreciate it if the UN bashers watched the news every now and then to see how much success they actually have. Sure, you wont see too much of it since sensationalism sells, and theres heaps of room for improvement, but they do a fair job of keeping the peace. Ever heard of East Timor?

Japan. Well, noone accused you of anything there, you just decided they did. Many people here admire Japanese capitalism, since the poverty of so many other capitalist nations simply doesn't exist. But America didn't establish that. In fact, you didn't even 'topple their regime' as you said, it still has an emporer, and this is the weird bit, Hirohito was still on the throne after the war was over! The Japanese decided something needed to be done, so they did it. Of course, America's money probably helped them decide that capitalism was the way to go, so I guess you did a good job in that respect, but the current system was not invented by an American.

Afghanistan is a mess right now, but how I see it things can only get better.

The war in Iraq will hopefully establish a democracy. The question is, what will happen if it isn't a pro America democracy? Boondock, you said you don't care, and so I support you. But those in power will probably differ from you on that one.

Kurdistan. I would love to see an official and democratic Kurdistan. It doesn't look likely, with the current Iraqi regime opposed, the soon to be established regime opposed, Turkey opposed and the US opposed. So I'll let that one go.

[Boondock Saint]

Oh, a US freindly democratic regime in Iraq being important to the US gov't. Sure ... I could see why that would be important to the US. They dont have to be our very bestest freinds but it would be nice if their leaders didnt call for a jihad every other day ...

I just thought of something ... what if *keep in mind I started this idea off with WHAT IF, so dont me ... ... ok ok ... flame if u like ) ... anyway ... what if the US is trying to distance itself from Isreal by making nice with a new arab democracy ... ... hmmm ... I wonder ..

Remember, that was just an idea ... just tossing it out there ... anyone have any ideas about that?

Proctor ... I try not to be too reasonable ... I must be sick or something ... Heh ...

[CasX]

Heh ... but then agian you most likely are much more intelligent then I ... as can be seen by your attempt to insult me ... heh ... you gotta do better then that freind.

Well my attempt to try and open your mind just a crack was unsuccessful. Especially seeing as how you percieved it as an attempted insult, which just shows your are being over defensive - probably due to nationalism and the Bush speeches trying to create a patriotic ferver by creating enemies where they do not really exist.

Any reds under your bed?

[Boondock Saint]

Are you totally ignorant?

@casX

Indeed, thats a great way to try and open someones mind.

As for Bush and his speaches, you assume too much ... and no, there are no reds under my bed ... as there are no reds to fear. They died a long time ago, all that is left are those who wish red was still alive.

[Proctor]

Someone at another forum (http://www.daddymonkey.com, you should check it out some time) said "It is not as easy as going in and replacing a secular dictatorship with a secular democracy. There are only two kinds of government in the Middle East: secular dictatorships and islamic democracies." I know it is kind of oversimplified, but the possibilities of an elected government that is anti US are very real. How will they react then?

And here is the thought for the day. What right do we have to go in and establish a democracy in a foreign country along the western multi party lines? By definition, democracy must be installed by the people, so a overseas installed democracy is impossible.

[Adrien]

How will they react then?

Well if this elected government is a democracy and that it is anti-us: they won't be able to react, because if they do, it would make their real reason to make war very clear. That's why Bu$h don't want to really let the power in the hands of the people anytime soon.

Plus, if the government is anti-US, another attack against Iraq is not possible, because this time they would really have all the area and the other countries against them.

[Proctor]

CasX, you didn't bother to read Boondock Saint's last two posts did you? It was almost an apology, in his own twisted way...

Boondock, the thing about distancing (sp?) sounds quite possible. I'm glad you mentioned it, I never would have thought it up.

Dri, I think you're right about what would happen under an anti US government. It would look pretty dogy if they did something after that wouldn't it?