[U-235]

the following is a scenerio i cam up with:

- shortly after WWII a the canadain communist party is elected into the federal government
- canada imediatly delcares her self a republic of the USSR
-russian armed forces move into the can/usa broder to protect its new allie from an american invasion
-soviet forces quickly take alaska to establish a safe supply route from siberia to canada
-in retaliation, americans invade east germany and claim it for them selfs
-after the invasion of russian held germany, an all out war between the USSR and NATO (assuming nato is founded with out the canadians) erupts in europe
-the war is quickly eneded with a peace treaty with the USSR conquering most of eaurope stoping short of the UK at the english channel
-there is no conflict for the next 10 years, while peoples republic of canada stockpiles weapons and vastly increases its military power in the region, preparing for an american invasion
-UASR(union of asian socialist republics) is formed, with several asian countries going communist
-in 1992 all the remaining capitalist countries form the UFL (union of freedome liberators)
-With over 7, 000, 000 communist armed forces a stones throw away from the american border, the US doesnt think of and invasion just yet


Could this really happen? And if so who do you would win in the end?

[Truth-a-naut]

shortly after WWII a the canadain communist party is elected into the federal government


This wouldn't have happened as the world was already divided into blocs, even before the end of the war.
It may have been possible for something like this to have happened after WWI though...

canada imediatly delcares her self a republic of the USSR

Would not have happened either as WWII helped define Canadians define what being a Canadian was even further, why would they suddenly give it up?

soviet forces quickly take alaska to establish a safe supply route from siberia to canada

If the Soviets would have even dared attacking America they would have been nuked. As after WWII the USSR did not have the bomb. The invasion of Alaska would have been thwarted by the American Pacific fleet in the area any how.

-in retaliation, americans invade east germany and claim it for them selfs

Moscow would have been vaporized and with that the leaders of the USSR.
The Allies would have poured across eastern europe, the Soviets would have been de-centralized after losing Moscow. America would have hit vital industrial areas as well, the USSR would be under a nuclear haze.

[Jesse]

Most of those points are wishful thinking at best in the mind of certain people

The only one that would be remotly possible would be the ascension of a Workers (not Communist, necessarily) Party achieving a majority, albeit after the end of the First World War. There was a great deal of socialist and labour unrest in the inter-war period.

[Truth-a-naut]

One of Canada's Socalist leaders organized a march of workers, he had a heart attack in Saskatchewan so all the workers went home and got drunk.

[U-235]

hmmm...perhaps i should have through about this one befor i posted, oh well

If the Soviets would have even dared attacking America they would have been nuked. As after WWII the USSR did not have the bomb.

i didnt specify a date for the invasion of alaska, it could have been in the 1950's when the USSR had the bomb, and could have droped them on large american cities in the east by launching planes from southern ontario.

[Truth-a-naut]

The invasion of Alaska would have needed to come fast as a Socialist Canada would not have survived long at all, which is why I thought Russia would attack before it had the bomb.

[U-235]

The invasion of Alaska would have needed to come fast as a Socialist Canada would not have survived long at all, which is why I thought Russia would attack before it had the bomb.

russian cargo planes could bring supplies and military forces north of alaska over the arctic ocean and into the north west territories of canada, though this would not be an efficient plan, thus the conquest of alaska later

[Comrade Ogilvy]

As you stated the scenario America would obviously lose, strategically we would be fucked (and also cursed with extremely bad generals, who would invade E. Germany in retaliation?)

I would say the best thing the U.S. could have done in the early stages of development is to invade Canada as soon as they declared they were communist before the bulk of Soviet troops arrived, and pulled back most troops from Europe to defend the U.S. leaving moderate forces in Europe to help the European armies and use S.F. groups there to raise and train Guerrilla and terrorist groups among civilians who opposed Soviet rule just in case of inavasion.

[Boondock Saint]

Uranium ...

While I enjoy theories about alternate post WWII results or even alternate WWII realities I just see way too many holes ...

Focusing on the military aspect alone ...

-russian armed forces move into the can/usa broder to protect its new allie from an american invasion

How? Are they shipping it over? Are they flying it over? When exactly does this take place? In the 50's? Directly after the end of WWII? In the 60's? It would take a massive amount of troops to withstand an attack by the United State IN North America.

-soviet forces quickly take alaska to establish a safe supply route from siberia to canada

You can't just 'quickly' take Alaska! Are you kidding me?!?!? The US fortified Alaska just in case the Japs invaded there ... the wilderness is so unforgiving that it only allows a certain window of opportunity for an invading force to conquer it ... and I garauntee there wont be anything 'quick' about it ... armor cannot move through that wilderness terrain unless it has paved roads ... even to this day the amount of paved roads in the area of NA is negligable ... The Soviets would have had to maintain air superiority ... with what? Their massive carrier fleet off the coast? Oh right all those weapons in Canada ... if you thought the US was unhappy and ornary about missiles in Cuba just try and imagine how the US would have responded to a Soviet build up in CANADA! It never would have been allowed.

-in retaliation, americans invade east germany and claim it for them selfs

There is no logic behind this ... why would the US try and take East Germany? If anything the forces in Europe would surrender West Germany and move to a better defensive position in France ... before pulling out to return to the US for homeland defense ...

No indeed the number one priority would be to crush Canada, destroy the Soviet navy and reclaim Alaska ...


Now ... here is one that is not mine but I like it ... I get this alternate reality from a video game on the x-box called 'freedom fighters' ...

- The Soviet Union is the first nation to develop the nuke. Utilizing this technology the Soviet Union drops the first nuke on Berlin in 1945 abruptly ending the European conflict. *Note- The US is still involved against Japan.*

- Soviet influences spread across europe, the United States is unable to slow its progress. By the mid 1950's the UK is the last european state to enter the Soviet Union.

- 1961, the Soviet Union against US wishes located medium range ballistic missiles in Cuba.

1970's, the Soviet Union sends thousands of 'military advisors' to Nicaragua and Honduras.

- 1999, The Mexican Communist Party is elected into power in a disputed election.

- In the first years of the new mellenium the Soviet Union not only invades South America but is indicated on a failed attempt to assassinate the US president.

- Today, people report spotting hundreds of drones all across the continental US.

- Hours later, the Soviet submarine fleet surfaces in NY harbor.

*This alternate ending occurs with a few things in mind ...

- The US develops the bomb later then the USSR and thus is not expected to have used it in the war against Japan. The war against Japan bleeds the US dry and furthermore Japan surrenders not to the US but to the USSR.

- With no european allies the US economy is sluggish and US technological advancements are greatly outpaced by the Soviet Union which encompasses all of the Euro-Asian continent including the ME.

[treat2]

Your Question Already Has A Real World Answer...

One thing the Europeons and the Russians ie. the former U.S.S.R have been living with for 50 years, BUT has been known ONLY ONCE to Americans, is the presence of short range nuclear missles right on the country's border.

The U.S.S.R. and Europe have lived with that torment for years. We in the U.S. have not (in an obvious way). (We don't tend to think of the Russian Subs that have nuclear missles , that we can presume are still off our border.)

Still haven't guessed it??? "The Cuban Missle Crisis" .

You saw the reaction, and the result. It would be reasonable to assume
that either the Nukes go, or Canada is annexed.

[U-235]

Now ... here is one that is not mine but I like it ... I get this alternate reality from a video game on the x-box called 'freedom fighters' ...

that game i hate much so....

[Boondock Saint]

Not to change the topic but why do you hate the game uranium? Its awesome!

Just curious ... is it the gameplay or the setting that you dislike?

[The One.]

he hates the game because it undermines communism Duh.

I don't think that the canadian communist party could ever have been elected in canadian history.

And even the communist party would not have declared canada a 'republic of the USSR'
Canadians were just too attached to their country and Great Britain.

The only event where canada could have turned communists would be a violent coup like the one in Czechozlovakia in canada that would be followed by a strong anti-communist canadian resistance and probably an American invasion.

-in retaliation, americans invade east germany and claim it for them selfs

Unrealistic.In the event US troops would have invaded East germany it would have sought the reunification of germany instead.

[U-235]

i like the gameplay, but its pure american propaganda
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2339

[viking99]

- Soviet influences spread across europe, the United States is unable to slow its progress. By the mid 1950's the UK is the last european state to enter the Soviet Union.

Is this part of the premise based on the idea that these countries willingly join the Soviet Union, or is there an invasion?

I don't think the first case is plausible because there was not enough pro-Communist sentiment in Western Europe. Some, yes, but not enough to hand over power without a major conflict (like Korea or Vietnam). Also, I think many countries, despite being Communist, would be nationalistic enough to resist Soviet influence. Such real world examples as Yugoslavia and China (less at first, but moreso with time), seem to verify this.

And a purely military route would just be unfeasible. Nukes and advanced technology or not, there were not enough Soviets to protect that kind of a land mass. Few have ever come close to controlling the size of territory you describe, and those that did, failed to keep it for very long. Resistance movements would have developed, which no amount of nukes could thwart.

Since this premise also, I believe, assumes that the U.S. does eventually develop nuclear weapons, the U.S. would have been able to counter the Soviet nuclear threat. It does not take nearly as many nukes as either side had during the Cold War to enter a state of mutual assured destruction.