[uglygoat]

-That´s the big trouble, but they can produce those planes and sell them to other nations (and, believe me, there WILL BE a market for Russian stuff, given the extreme agressivity of US government)

is it possible that the cold war era was more benificial to the global economy? or at least to the economy of the former 'super powers'? or does bush's gov more closely resemble reagan's and thus sort of thrust the comparison upon us? putin plays his cards alot like former soviets too, mind ya..

You´re wrong. Iraqi is much weaker now than in the first Gulf war. It didn´t upgrade equipment in the last 10 years.

i agree with this, and the bit about not being able to train very effectively. especially if we are to believe the majority of 'conscripts' are there against their will, and threatened with death both from infront and behind. it was no great, glorious military victory, in terms of matching whits and machines with a formidably armed advisary. it's been said here before though.

i still don't think that chinese pilots would be able to defeat american pilots in combat. i think we've too much experience, even if china was able to match aircraft for aircraft. the korean conflict showed this, and many a russian pilot found out how well trained and experienced us pilots are/were in that conflict.

[Alhazen Al-Rashid]

Well, you're in need of a wake-up call, so i will provide it for you.

The M-1A2SEP can stop any known tank gun in existence, and it's own gun can kill any other tank it may face. This is due to it's layer of DU238 armor- which no other tank in the world possesses.


Also, the average Russian pilot recieves an average of TEN HOURS flight time per year, opposed to more than 10x that much by the average US pilot.
The F-22 also has IRST gear, and an LPI radar that can detect targets 150NM distant, yet is undetectable to enemy aircraft.
Since the range of AMRAAM is 50+NM, and the range of IRST detection is 40NM what do you get?
TOTAL MISMATCH.

The disparity of technology in Naval forces is SO large, there's no need to even discuss it.
A list of the naval systems the US fields that are the best in the world would take 250 words.

Also, there's communications, coordination, and real-time inteligence capabilities. The US DWARFS the Russians in these areas, it really is NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Then there's weapons guidance and ECM/ECCM technology, another area where the US is light years ahead of the Reds.

Take ALL these things, then compare the US Military, a completely volunteer, and professional force, and compare it to the Russians, who have a very poorly trained conscript army that hasn't been paid in a year.

If you chose to believe the Russians are some big threat fine, whatever. But just so you know, the russians havn't had their carrier to sea in THREE YEARS due to lack of funds, and the "AWESOME"
SU-35K force that lots of russians like to blab about consists of exactly 23 aircraft with poorly trained out of practice pilots, who can't even get in the air because there's no money available for jet fuel.

Really, the Russian military is a big, sad, joke. And Im not saying this in an inflammatory way, I have great respect for the past history of the russian military. its government is held accountable for letting it decline so, in my opinion.

[Necro99]

[S.F. edit: no one line posts in this forum please]

[Vassili Zaitsev]

Well, you're in need of a wake-up call, so i will provide it for you.

The M-1A2SEP can stop any known tank gun in existence, and it's own gun can kill any other tank it may face. This is due to it's layer of DU238 armor- which no other tank in the world possesses.

Then how come so many M1's met their demise in Iraq during this war? I'm Spetsnaz can fill you in on that if you don't know. The Abrams tank is highly overrated in my opinion.

[Boondock Saint]

Then how come so many M1's met their demise in Iraq during this war? I'm Spetsnaz can fill you in on that if you don't know. The Abrams tank is highly overrated in my opinion.

Well lets be fair here.

So many?

How many?

This isnt like the tens of helicopters some one else claimed the US lost in Somalia is it?

I can count how many M1's were disabled on two hands ... you can only protect treads so much ... hit them and you disable the tank ... not to mention at least one 'lucky shot' that was such a freak incident it really should go in the record books (I refer to the M1 that drove off a bridge after the driver was shot.), then you have a few tanks disabled here and there by missiles or landmines ... it happens in war ... tanks are big bulky bullseyes that happen to shoot back with a big punch.

Stick a tank in a city, I dont care what you call the tank and I dont care who made it or who is driving it, then stick an infantry squad in that city with AT ability and ... watch the tank go bye bye.

Tanks are over rated in most situations but overwhelming in others ... they are expensive gun platforms that have glaring weaknesses ...

[Alhazen Al-Rashid]

Facts:
The tank ran off a bridge, into a river. Retrieved 5+ days later. The tank was in 20+ feet of water, upside down. The tank crew died of drowning, minus the driver who was shot in the head.

The driver would not been allowed to drive unbuttoned due to the 'new' safety device that does not allow the turrent to traverse while the drivers hatch is open.

There is no way to get out of the tank except for:
1. Drivers Hatch
2. TC's Hatch
3. Laoders Hatch

The tank being upside down, the hatches were unable to open, due to hydrostatic pressure of the water and silt/mud. Water was rushing in due to hatch seals not being worth a shizit!

The driver decided he did not want to drown and shot himself!!!

At first I though he may have neen shot by a sniper (not likely), then he went crazy and shot himself (maybe), he went crazy and the crew shot him (not likely).

The driver not wanting to drown and taking his own life makes the most since, being no one will ever know for sure. ...


Tanks have three main characteristics that they have to be designed around:

1. Fire Power;
2. Speed/Mobility; and
3. Armor Protection.

With each one of these, the more you gain in one, the less you get of another. More speed/mobility = less weight (armor protection), more fire power = bigger cannon = more weight = less speed/mobility.


The Marine Corps has put out a letter stating the M1A1 will remain in the arsonal until 2021. The Army is trying to develope a lighter, more mobile tank, using varients of the LAV.

The biggest problem with the M1 is the weight, 70+ Tons. Once the DOD figures how to mount a 120mm main gun on something that weighs 45/50 tons, and when you fire it, it doesn't flip over, we will have a new tank.

[Boondock Saint]

Um Al ... its pretty easy to find out who shot the driver ...

Ballistics and does the driver have a sidearm/weapon?

If he doesnt have a gun then he didnt shoot himself.

If they pull a 7.62 slug out of his skull then he didnt shoot himself.

If they pull a 9mm slug out of his shell and he happens to be holding a 9mm handgun then odds are he did ... why? Doesnt matter.

So ... an autopsy would answer alot of questions ... a man who flips out most likelywould have drowned while clawing at the hatch to get out ... not thinking to shoot himself ...

A man who has accepted his fate as death and has to choose between drowning and a bullet to the head might choose the bullet ...

But ... it all comes down to ballistics and the autopsy ...

In the end its a small trivial matter to everyone other then the soldiers families.

[Proctor]

Ask a New Zealander and their special forces are the best.

Grins.

Tanks also went out of style after WWI...

Not true. Tanks barely existed in WWI. A British Colonel suggested that they should build them so they could drive across trenches and the Generals laughed in his face. But 30 years later, and the Panzer sure showed them up...

[ahab]

Tanks also went out of style after WWI...

Not true. Tanks barely existed in WWI.

Compared to WWII, true, but there still were plenty that participated in battles. The ancestor of the modern tank is often considered the Renault FT17 that participated in WWI. The US Army's armored corps was actually disbanded following WWI. Development and funding for new tanks lacked in many countries for a variety of reasons after WWI. The world of tanks went downhill immediately following WWI, but picked up in 15-20 years.

[joe]

[quote="Alhazen Al-Rashid"]
THE BEST SOLDIERS IN THE WORLD ARE AMERICAN.

I know ill prob get a lot of flaming for this but here we go...

you state the Best Soldiers in the world are american. NOT TRUE..
its actually in MY backyard : Australia.

Australian ARMY personall are the best in the world, our SAS rule over the British SAS - it is claimed that Australia has #1 Defence in the world.

Regards,
Joe

PS - I think its said we have the best ARMY in the world because of our loss of casulties in past wars.