[Americanroyalty]

You should expand on this into movies. Metropolis to THX. False deities, sexualized underclass, global order. City on a hill as a Swiss invention to isolated dystopic Cities. All on the silver screen.

[Donna]

RhetoricThug.. as someone who might know a bit about Steiner, perhaps you can shed some non-waffly light on a detail that often bugs me about him:

I keep hearing over and over again how he was 'broken hearted' over his treatment by the Nazis, particularly the burning of the Goetheanum. I keep thinking that he must have been a bit of a wuss and also pretty foolish to carry on being insanely positive in the light of what was evidently happening around him.
This actually doesn't say much for Anthroposophy if you can't see the sky-high writing on the wall and adapt to a situation. Perhaps he thought, pretty stupidly, that if he just had positive thoughts and pressed on regardless, then he would defeat the bad stuff pressing on him. This hippy hogwash is not such a problem when held by an individual, but unfortunately it is contagious and tends to drag a lot of unfortunate others into the mire too.

So.. was he a hopeless idiot or is this 'broken hearted' thing just an invention? (which does tend to backfire and just makes him look like a romantic fool nonetheless)

Steiner died in 1925, before the rise of the Nazis.

The culprit of the Goetheanum's destruction was never found, though Steiner himself became suspicious of occult elements from Britain.

I'm not sure about "broken hearted". A new, larger, and more integral Goetheanum structure was built while he was still alive.

[RhetoricThug]

Excuse my belated reply, I had been following the rise of nationalism (Brexit etc. Btw, notice how Brexit has 'exit' within the name, perhaps it subliminally influenced perception). We seem to be watching some kind global struggle between nationalism & internationalism, but I digress.

Donald, to tell you the truth, I'm impressed by your collection of Rudolf Steiner For I am familiar with 'An Outline of Occult Science.' Like I said before, I had stumbled upon his work while researching quantum field theory and its dissemination. I think you may exercise a greater command over Anthroposophy and its world view than myself. See, I've been reading 'The Gnosis & The Law,' alongside the book of Enoch. Interestingly enough, RS's world view seems to follow the 'hidden' contours of metaphysical world history. For the great story of Atlantis, stories of ascended masters, giants of old earth, blood line lineage, and alien races (some inter-dimensional) seem to dominate the theological discussion of yesteryear (before genetics had been explored/established through the scientific method). Leading one to immediately recognize the contemporary archetypes that inhabit 'mythic form' as derivatives of the original 'blood lines.' Meaning to say: Our modern psycho sociological anthropomorphic 'idols' tend to be extensions of ancient archetypes which 'shapeshift' according to our human needs. We are dealing with the same transcendent forces that had influenced human evolution for centuries. Rudolf Steiner (along with many other metaphysicians) wish for men to understand the internal life, so we may grasp or unveil the external realm of our ancient life source. The same 'essence' that motivates the external 'form' does not change and its formula may be uncovered through collective discipline & discussion. During the late 19th century & early 20th century explorers of 'essence' (or primordial substance) made many breakthroughs. Quantum field theory had been the scientific approach for unveiling the hidden or internal realm of life that dictates our external experience. Scientists & metaphysicians had been attempting to unveil the internal intricacies that guide external manifestation. With that in mind, perhaps 'divine rays' play a role in shaping human consciousness as we probe the 'essence' of our shared time/space reality. For we are conduits of LIGHT.

Beyond Rudolf Steiner, what do you think about the ideas covered in this thread, Donald?

RhetoricThug.. that if he just had positive thoughts and pressed on regardless, then he would defeat the bad stuff pressing on him. This hippy hogwash is not such a problem when held by an individual, but unfortunately it is contagious and tends to drag a lot of unfortunate others into the mire too.

So.. was he a hopeless idiot or is this 'broken hearted' thing just an invention? (which does tend to backfire and just makes him look like a romantic fool nonetheless)

We are all romantic fools in our own way... I previously touched on the social hazard called 'solipsism.' The new-age (or what you call hippy hogwash) doctrine of 'positive thinking' is one subjective perversion of the known law of attraction. You must be completely aware of Natural Law (objective operation/laws of physical reality) to utilize the law of attraction. The new age doctrine ignores Natural Law & masquerades as the law of attraction. As human organisms, we operate through the medium called the 3rd dimension, so we must respect its laws, and pretending to bypass such laws is a consequence of wishful thinking. Ya dig?

Example: I approach a cliff... Wishful thinking may allow one to pretend to fly, but without respecting the Natural Law of gravity, wishful thinking will lead to death. In order to successfully bypass such laws We must be aware of the laws 'running' behind the 3rd dimension program. If I approach the cliff with a 'flying contraption' my wishful thinking becomes fruitful thinking. One day, with the proper techniques, tools/technologies, our wishful thinking will result in fruitful thinking, and we may transcend our 3rd dimension and join the celestial hierarchy of intelligent entities.

You should expand on this into movies. Metropolis to THX. False deities, sexualized underclass, global order. City on a hill as a Swiss invention to isolated dystopic Cities. All on the silver screen.

Be our guest, you may add to this discussion with such relevant topics. George Lucas is very interesting when you consider his film career. THX caught the attention of 'powerful people' and it is my belief that he had been recruited to help structure new 'mythic forms' for the masses to consume and 'live through,' (think Star Wars). Hollywood created a new brand of pantheism by illuminating the silver screen with lesser & higher art forms. These art forms structure new associations (cognitive connections) & paint new fields of awareness for the masses. Roman gods had been lesser or higher archetypes that embodied (while diversifying the field of awareness) material & spiritual reasoning for the plebeian. Today, movies act as metaphors (mythic forms) which bring specialized perspectives to life for commoners. Movies tend to consciously & unconsciously communicate (encode/decode) point of view as process & establish ground rules for the commoner's worldly & spiritual relationships.

[jakell]

RhetoricThug.. as someone who might know a bit about Steiner, perhaps you can shed some non-waffly light on a detail that often bugs me about him:

I keep hearing over and over again how he was 'broken hearted' over his treatment by the Nazis, particularly the burning of the Goetheanum. I keep thinking that he must have been a bit of a wuss and also pretty foolish to carry on being insanely positive in the light of what was evidently happening around him.
This actually doesn't say much for Anthroposophy if you can't see the sky-high writing on the wall and adapt to a situation. Perhaps he thought, pretty stupidly, that if he just had positive thoughts and pressed on regardless, then he would defeat the bad stuff pressing on him. This hippy hogwash is not such a problem when held by an individual, but unfortunately it is contagious and tends to drag a lot of unfortunate others into the mire too.

So.. was he a hopeless idiot or is this 'broken hearted' thing just an invention? (which does tend to backfire and just makes him look like a romantic fool nonetheless)

Steiner died in 1925, before the rise of the Nazis.

The culprit of the Goetheanum's destruction was never found, though Steiner himself became suspicious of occult elements from Britain.

I'm not sure about "broken hearted". A new, larger, and more integral Goetheanum structure was built while he was still alive.

Hadn't looked closely enough to discern this detail, presumably this story was aimed at the general intolerance present in German society at the time, I am aware that his meetings and activities were disrupted quite a bit.

I would have thought that this disapproval was enough to explain the destruction though, so he must have had some extra information in order to conclude that British occultists were responsible, either that or he could not accept that the mundane doesn't happen to people such as him.

[Donna]

...so he must have had some extra information in order to conclude that British occultists were responsible, either that or he could not accept that the mundane doesn't happen to people such as him.

He was a clairvoyant/seer.

[RhetoricThug]

Now before folks try to chime in with 'this is a publicity stunt for that Tidal streaming service,' let's acknowledge that this piece of art may be nothing more than popular entertainment whipped up for publicity. Nonetheless, it is thought-provoking... This rich & famous web of popular relations naked for the whole world to see.

...

But what if it isn't just that, dare I say that this piece of art accomplishes two things at once? Perhaps Kanye West is exposing occult culture by stripping naked 'idols.' Given how West had used esoteric symbology in his earlier work.

'Kanye West dares stars to sue after dropping bonkers ‘Famous’ video starring naked Swift, Trump'
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen ... -1.2687916

'Kanye West’s ‘Famous’ Video Boasts Bizarre Orgy with Donald Trump and Taylor Swift'
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... swift.html

The camera slowly pans across the peacefully sleeping faces of some of the most famous people in the world. At the center of the unusually wide bed are Kanye West and his wife Kim Kardashian West, the sheet falling below her ample behind. Next to Kanye is Taylor Swift, lying on her back, breasts exposed.

As the camera moves out from the center, more familiar and increasingly unexpected figures appear. On the right, Kardashian’s sex tape partner Ray J and Kanye’s ex-girlfriend Amber Rose, then Kardashian’s stepmother Caitlyn Jenner, followed by Bill Cosby, who Kanye proclaimed “INNOCENT” on Twitter earlier this year.

On the left, Chris Brown and Rihanna, who were once in the world’s most infamous abusive relationship. Next to them, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and Vogue editor Anna Wintour, followed finally by former President George W. Bush, who Kanye once said “doesn’t care about black people” on national television after Hurricane Katrina.

Is West exposing the occult orgy culture while taunting these celebrities for publicity? Could he be holding back some sort of Eyes Wide Shut-esque 'blackmail' worthy information and that is why he may get away with something like this? Alas, perhaps this art is 'rubbing our noses' in occult culture through popular entertainment with West's narcissistic tribute to his own creativity...

Please note that the video had been inspired by Vincent Desiderio's Sleep painting.

Thoughts?

[Donna]

Beyond Rudolf Steiner, what do you think about the ideas covered in this thread, Donald?

Quantum field theory isn't something that particularly interests me. I find it every bit as incomprehensible as Bostrom's trilemma or any popular cosmology. For the most part I'm skeptical (if not opposed) to naturalistic attempts to understand metaphysics through methodological science. In this sense I'm a strict Popperian who would view the scientific methodology as self-narrowing and self-negating.

Steiner agreed. He viewed scientific naturalism as the sclerotized "exhaust" of material civilization; that is to say, once a discovery of one of nature's laws resulted in one or several innovations in technical engineering, the connection between knowledge and nature became severed. As a trained clairvoyant, he observed this impulse beginning in ancient Gondēshāpūr before traversing through the Golden Age of Islam, reappearing in Germany and other parts of Europe during the Renaissance and Enlightenment, and before "incarnating" with British empiricism and the pragmatism of Anglo-Saxon civilization. He predicted in 1917 that, beginning in the year 1998, this cycle would come full circle and a demonic element would begin to manifest in the Arab-Asiatic region (i.e. the Middle East) as the 'egregore' of material civilization.

Antediluvian Mysteries were inspired by fire; specifically the sidereal light. It appears the Mystery of the Post-Atlantean epoch is evil, or more accurately, nothingness or darkness in contrast to the light of the morning of civilization. We are traversing a "cosmic night" of which our only guidance is the light-in-this-world, which is Christ.

[RhetoricThug]

Quantum field theory isn't something that particularly interests me. I find it every bit as incomprehensible as Bostrom's trilemma or any popular cosmology. For the most part I'm skeptical (if not opposed) to naturalistic attempts to understand metaphysics through methodological science. In this sense I'm a strict Popperian who would view the scientific methodology as self-narrowing and self-negating.

Ah, I see... The rejection of material dialectics be at hand, because the West (and most of the world) be living through the lens of ignorant materialism. By ignorant, I tend to mean unsophisticated 'invented purpose,' as we self-approve or perpetuate the bias of our human sensorium. This reinvented chemical-marriage, one unbalanced relationship, between the human species & reality at large, tends to not only disconnect us from 'truth' but also attempts to reprogram 'truth.' We are reshaping nature or the nature of truth to correspond with our human image. For man, the available evidence became malleable, and therefore we possess the potential to be the great destroyer of ages or the Prometheus of tomorrow. The Masonic fallacy be that of the self-perceived architect. Man can rebuild from nothing, because the great architect gave men dominion over all 'things,' thus we exercise 'control' over the dualistic nature of reality. Black squares & white squares may be squared according to our will & action. Immutable laws may be transmuted to the benefit of any human configuration. We tend the temple & write its laws in our own image.

“man makes himself the measure of all things” Giovanni Battista Vico

You disagree with that particular outlook or position, yes? Nonetheless, you must recognize quantum field theory for its transcendental qualities. Like Kant's critique of pure Reason, quantum evolution goes beyond the fallacy of our five senses. With that in mind, may you give credit where credit may be due? Because materialism sources its material from the relative translation of empiricism, whereas nonlocal phenomena transforms the definition of each relative translation of stimuli we experience (through the medium of time/space). Alas, I think the quantum world of experience reflects the metaphysical concept known as transcendental idealism and moves away from traditional scientific methodology.

Steiner agreed. He viewed scientific naturalism as the sclerotized "exhaust" of material civilization; that is to say, once a discovery of one of nature's laws resulted in one or several innovations in technical engineering, the connection between knowledge and nature became severed.

Allow me to offer this excerpt from a letter by Marshall McLuhan (note his use of short-hand):

Dear Pound

McLuhan has corn-sidered usury and noted certain obsessions of his contemporaries which make it endemic. [1] Always struck by Aquinas's definition of incest as 'avarice of the emotions.' That sets usury in universal perspective of fear and hatred. Incest the impulse of the threatened patriarch. Usury the impulse of the fearful citizen.

Current illusion is that science has abolished all natural laws. Nature now pays 5 million %. Applied science now the master usurer. To hell with our top soil. We can grow potatoes on the moon tomorrow. How you goan to expose that while there is still human 'life' on the planet?

2nd war produced great discovery of war as new way of life. Financial pages simply chortling these days over a prosperity rooted in 3rd war. Ordinary guy eats this up. Total war = total security he figures. THAT is the scale of imbecility now current.

Life Jan 1/51 War assets issue. Pin-up girl featured as major asset. I have tried, in forthcoming (March) Mechanical Bride to devise a technique for elucidating this scene. It can't be satirized. Trouble with duffers like Geo. Orwell [2] is that they satirize something that happened 50 years ago as a threat of the future! Effect is narcotic. Regards.

Lilly Library, Indiana University

Footnotes:

[1] The economic theories of H.C. Douglas, the inventor of social credit, of Silvio Gesell (1862-1930), a German monetary reformer, and others produced in Pound a long lasting obsession, beginning in the 1920s, with monetary reform, and accounted for repeated denunciations in his writings of usury (credit capitalism)- notably in Canto XLV ("With Usura...").
[2] George Orwell (1903-50), English essayist and political satirist, whose most famous books are Animal Farm (1945) and the anti-Utopian novel Nineteen Eighty-four (1949). In a 1977 interview in Maclean's (March 7), McLuhan said that 1984 "was not a prediction at all. It's nostalgia from 1934. All Utopias are rear-view mirrors... 'New Speak' for heavens sake, was Time magazine. He (Orwell) made all those things push up a bit into a tension and called it the future."

-Letters of Marshall McLuhan, page 219

He predicted in 1917 that, beginning in the year 1998, this cycle would come full circle and a demonic element would begin to manifest in the Arab-Asiatic region (i.e. the Middle East) as the 'egregore' of material civilization.

Interesting... But I believe that the foundation of such a 'demonic element' had been structured before 1998.

Antediluvian Mysteries were inspired by fire; specifically the sidereal light. It appears the Mystery of the Post-Atlantean epoch is evil, or more accurately, nothingness or darkness in contrast to the light of the morning of civilization. We are traversing a "cosmic night" of which our only guidance is the light-in-this-world, which is Christ.

Sure, but I feel as if the mystery schools and secret societies attempt to occult such spiritual knowledge. In order to properly wield our great material technologies, we need to evolve spiritually & socially, but the 'dark forces' or adept sorcerers wish to occult Christ Consciousness & distort its essence to gain control over the 3rd dimension. Since the dawn of the electric age, our temporal sciences have exponentially progressed due to the fact that electricity speeds up process (bypassing time & space constraints) allowing us to communicate instantly, disregarding Natural Law. At the same time, our spiritual or metaphysical evolution seems stunted or overshadowed by our technologies and material progress. In other words, our secular material matrix (artificial environment) envelopes us and hinders our collective spiritual growth, forcing us to operate within the given frequencies or spectrum of our shared time/space continuum... While the powers that be 'break-away' from this 3rd dimension as they maintain it as the invisible prison or holding cell for humanity/consciousness.

[Donna]

You disagree with that particular outlook or position, yes? Nonetheless, you must recognize quantum field theory for its transcendental qualities. Like Kant's critique of pure Reason, quantum evolution goes beyond the fallacy of our five senses. With that in mind, may you give credit where credit may be due? Because materialism sources its material from the relative translation of empiricism, whereas nonlocal phenomena transforms the definition of each relative translation of stimuli we experience (through the medium of time/space). Alas, I think the quantum world of experience reflects the metaphysical concept known as transcendental idealism and moves away from traditional scientific methodology.

The problem with Empiricism is that it necessarily steps outside of the region of revealed Christian faith. Steiner attempted to overcome this problem by emphasizing clairvoyance rather than experience (i.e. the phenomenological vision of Goetheanism instead of the mysticism and illuminism associated with the Aufklärung/Enlightenment). Steiner maintained that human beings are capable of developing super-sensible sight that allows them to see into the spiritual world and read the sidereal record of nature.

Sure, but I feel as if the mystery schools and secret societies attempt to occult such spiritual knowledge.

I agree that this is the case of those occult streams (primarily Anglo-American, but include the anticlerical movements in Western Europe) which descend from the Illuminist tradition. The Anthroposophical movement was an important epistemological break from this tradition in occult philosophy.

In order to properly wield our great material technologies, we need to evolve spiritually & socially, but the 'dark forces' or adept sorcerers wish to occult Christ Consciousness & distort its essence to gain control over the 3rd dimension.

We need to be able to see the etheric kingdom within nature if we wish to see the Christ.

Since the dawn of the electric age, our temporal sciences have exponentially progressed due to the fact that electricity speeds up process (bypassing time & space constraints) allowing us to communicate instantly, disregarding Natural Law. At the same time, our spiritual or metaphysical evolution seems stunted or overshadowed by our technologies and material progress. In other words, our secular material matrix (artificial environment) envelopes us and hinders our collective spiritual growth, forcing us to operate within the given frequencies or spectrum of our shared time/space continuum... While the powers that be 'break-away' from this 3rd dimension as they maintain it as the invisible prison or holding cell for humanity/consciousness.

Materialization is simply the sclerosis of ideas. At the present point in human evolution it is primarily the element of fantasy (rather than imagination) that has become material. The capitalist epoch, for example, exists solely to accommodate human fantasy. When imagination begins to materialize - which Steiner identified with the Archangel Michael - then humanity and the Earth will begin to emerge from material density itself.

[RhetoricThug]

The problem with Empiricism is that it necessarily steps outside of the region of revealed Christian faith. Steiner attempted to overcome this problem by emphasizing clairvoyance rather than experience (i.e. the phenomenological vision of Goetheanism instead of the mysticism and illuminism associated with the Aufklärung/Enlightenment). Steiner maintained that human beings are capable of developing super-sensible sight that allows them to see into the spiritual world and read the sidereal record of nature.

Interesting perspective... The concept of 'celestial seasons' intrigues me. After-all, humans can only observe & record planetary seasons due to our limited lifespan. May I creatively suggest that 'celestial seasons' occur and change the planet's environment thus change human ideas & behavior? The cosmology which encircles occult circles really revolves around the stars and the sidereal nature of reality. What do you think about the universe being one self-aware teleological hologram?

Perhaps my poem 'Flowering Tower' will help show you what I mean.

Flowers in the field bloom without foreknowledge
Man's history, technology, symbols
Stretch across time & space

The collective past present and future
Seeds stems leaves and flowers
Flourish

Teleological biology
Nature's mathematical story
We are one flower blooming

Synergy of energy
Servomechanism & astral ecology
Working parts of the total sum

Seeds will always be
Stems will always be
Flowers
We will always be evolving

Parallel discovery
As above
So below
The mind reveals the past
Our future will all ways grow

From the base matter of Light
To the abyss of unknown
The human mind climbs
Up stardust stairs

To have no purpose gives purpose
According to the book of Nature
To share purpose lives purpose
Grow man's flowering tower

I'm one petal
You're one petal
We will forever settle
Wilting in earth's dirt

Nothing created
Nothing destroyed
Something discovered
Something deployed

The human race is a field of flowers that cannot calculate its growth pattern, for if we gave our evolution through thousands of years pattern recognition, we'd be fully aware of the flowering tower reaching the Godhead's infinite algorithm. Instead, we're designed to be modules that conduct finite observations through our five senses, serving the celestial schematic, being what we are meant to be. Together we wilt, together we bloom, forever building life's flowering tower.

I agree that this is the case of those occult streams (primarily Anglo-American, but include the anticlerical movements in Western Europe) which descend from the Illuminist tradition. The Anthroposophical movement was an important epistemological break from this tradition in occult philosophy.

I see quantum dialectic as an important epistemological break from the bias of our human sensorium. Our perception of dimensional experience can be deconstructed and explained through the reconstruction of primordial substance. Quantum reason (or technique) is the next best 'metaphor' (following the chronological compilation of ancestral information as taught & learned through our shared illusory linear space/time experience) or 'approach' for semantic mammals attempting to 'grasp' thus 'reverse engineer' noumenon along with its space/time relationships which result in the experience itself(from the perspective of sentient human beings). Yet, since the tools we're using to investigate quantum mechanics tend to be extensions of the experience deduced through the relative translation of human sensation, we may be using a different 'filter' or 'lens' as we 'pretend' to know & understand the same materialized symptoms as they appear & reappear through the medium of our shared dimensional bond. In other words: Occult science, science in general, etc... may be based upon false data gathered by observing 'life' through the bias of our human senses. If experience stems from our relative translation of information colliding throughout time/space, perhaps we may be completely 'wrong' because of the way the human interfaces with 'life.' If any other 'creature' happened to evolve with the human equivalent capacity for intellectual reasoning, the laws of nature would be demonstrably different because of the way information or 'life' interfaces with the senses of other conscious forms. Lastly, since human beings are inseparable from the universe & life, we act as complex conduits of light for life. We help change or shape the outside world as the outside world changes our internal thoughts; this curious feedback loop or Ouroboros of living activity is made up of organic & inorganic information bits which continuously, instantly, and simultaneously interact all ways & always. You decode and experience one 'stream' of life's information. The primordial substance vibrates through everything and the microcosm (individual humans) acts as one of many channels for eternity to manifest its ever-changing macrocosm (life/universe). Are we living inside one omnipotent self-aware, self-sustaining, perpetual evolution scheme?

We need to be able to see the etheric kingdom within nature if we wish to see the Christ.

Please expand on this statement.

Also, we shall discover one variable frequency and attempt to tune in to the etheric kingdom. Space is not empty and time is not linear. Gravity waves tend to be symptoms of underlying or veiled frequencies.

Materialization is simply the sclerosis of ideas. At the present point in human evolution it is primarily the element of fantasy (rather than imagination) that has become material. The capitalist epoch, for example, exists solely to accommodate human fantasy. When imagination begins to materialize - which Steiner identified with the Archangel Michael - then humanity and the Earth will begin to emerge from material density itself.

Again, wouldn't the materialization of imagination look like the internet (or externalized noosphere)? Since we channel the universe and are inseparable from the universe (because we are the universe), the information that forms the imagination would look like a tangible, inclusive, happening. The internet is one collective image of what the universe may 'look' or 'feel' like outside of this self-aware teleological firmament... But why would this self-aware intelligently guiding hologram want me to type out (encode) something like this inside the material representation of itself?

I leave you with one more poem

The Mundane Egg boils in Manvantara's oil
under peg legged pirate's veiled eye
son of Horus, seer exorcised, holding Cain
enable profane template (temporal painting) before pearly gate
echoing equilibrium, masculine & feminine rogabitque

Good & Evil within spirit's cathedral
tempting tempo within thy temple
feeble flesh duress
undress John the Baptist's crest
Star of David blessed, as Lazarus ascends

The Black Star Child connects
with Sirius & its tribe of homo-superior pacifists
weaving Eden's epoch
semper apertus
semper ardens
semper idem
metamorphosis through thee medium

Regal sigil of the Doubleheaded Eagle
forevermore deine medien smeagol
hermetic throes unfold mortal metronome
befeuchten thy bed, ich bin zuhuase

Masonic syllogism, Thoth's wisdom
Vahana Valhalla hakuna-matata
medulla oblongata mantra
Yantra Nirvana

Tea kettle tea kettle bellows
'figaro figaro,' resettle steamy pebbles
Mother Moon cycles recycle Father Sun
duality of one

Druid dial, water clock
sand capsule, mechanical tick-tock
digital watch fine tuning eternal thought
begotten das grauen!

Midnight cries mourning mutation
zodiac tactician, grand illusion magician
we're entering the age of revelation
Zeit's unveiling, whilst Geist be wailing

The Great Work's Elect(ricity)
Fohat mysteries & the hidden hand of history
Aryan recipe willing this world into existence
scientia imperii decus et tutamen

Proteus exodus, Pralaya's wisp
undermen given a Joyce
Ulysses awake in the still waters void
scio me nihil scire

Abundance & Gnosis
working parts of the primordial substance
seculo seculorum
atom elect nostris soul's solstice

/transmission



Higher message from the 'others,' for the somnambulists on Spaceship Earth... Attempting to reach the other end of intelligence, I'm on this planet with you, reader. Try to connect our thoughts, I've broken through and so have you, no time or space between our words. Let's deconstruct finite sensibilities and unveil infinite potentiality. Will you please join this epiphany?

Love life NOW!
'Things' we experience (empiric sensory perception) through the medium of time/space tend to be immediate macro reactions to local & nonlocal compounding micro actions interacting (always & all ways following the first cause). The combined combustion of colliding energy forces (organic & inorganic) which evolve to create the NOW, possess the ability to influence the sum of all consent (universal inclusive loop called NOW). Your will & representation can change the relative translation of tomorrow's information. Information is everything and it starts in your imagination, only through the discipline of will power may you manifest your soul's desire. Beware of the law: 'for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.' Sorcerers of the mind (noosphere magicians) are completely aware of the quantum process (as above so below, micro & macro), for they wield raw material & forge their thoughts into existence by the light's eternal flame, utilizing (simultaneously) all possible substance, be it problem (past), reaction (present), or solution (future) . All scientific principles (unveiled discoveries) which apply to the study of gravity & physics, equally apply to the thought realm. We reflect our own image in everything we encounter and thus we reflect our geometrical milieu during its phenomenal operation (inside is outside).

This is one dimension of the multi-dimensional electric reverberation hologram, refracting itself by concentrating properly encoded & decoded particles/DNA into one instantaneous self-perpetuating self-contained sustainable system of energy fragments, which form the whole of the known universe (we are part of the impartial (partially hidden) plasma puzzle). Humans get to participate inside this matrix as evolved features/intelligently seeded conduits of soul essence through the medium of organic function, composed of compiled information (genetic cycles of life & death), one ubiquitous sequence known as the self-aware molecular structure. Pre-star man experiences one unfathomable equation, using light matter to explore the dark matter. Post-star man experiences the program that 'runs' the unfathomable equation because you are the light & dark matter. The age of revealing is NOW. Instinctual man will be replaced by Cosmic ideation. Homo-superior walk among us.


Infinity loves you!

[jakell]

Interesting perspective... The concept of 'celestial seasons' intrigues me. After-all, humans can only observe & record planetary seasons due to our limited lifespan. May I creatively suggest that 'celestial seasons' occur and change the planet's environment thus change human ideas & behavior? The cosmology which encircles occult circles really revolves around the stars and the sidereal nature of reality. What do you think about the universe being one self-aware teleological hologram?....

Well, direct observations aside, our 'limited lifespan' has little to do with what we may record or deduce from them, in fact the latter here has evolved to overcome the former.

Perhaps by 'limited lifespan' you meant the finite length of time we have been establishing a system of knowledge and records. ie the life of 'Man' not men. Alternatively, you might have meant the limited window of time that the average human can appreciate without deep thought, which is arguably directly linked to our personal lifespan,

[RhetoricThug]

Well, direct observations aside, our 'limited lifespan' has little to do with what we may record

Our lifespan directly affects our material progress & invented purpose. Say... If Tesla (or any beautiful/brilliant mind) had one hundred more years to discovery the zero point energy field, we'd be far more advanced & civilized. His lifespan limited his potential/discoveries (this is why, in electrical engineering terms, we call more energy 'potential' because when you increase human potential you advance discovery, more energy=less time wasted). Each inventor or 'deep thinker' must deal with its own limitations before helping the collective (human species) advance. Some men devote their time here on Earth to death, and care not for life itself.

Alternatively, you might have meant the limited window of time that the average human can appreciate without deep thought, which is arguably directly linked to our personal lifespan,

The average human operates as one surrogate for well-established ideas & actions. Many folks shall go through life without producing one original thought (for that is the true struggle for conscious intelligent creatures). New approaches to the same situation require deep thoughts/reflection, meditation mediation, etc; the average human will act as one stabilizer within the circuitry of life, they keep the wheel spinning while others reinvent the wheel that happens to be spinning.

Use your head, more time= more discovery. Time, when utilized correctly is raw energy, energy=potential, potential can become discovery, discovery creates change. With more time, we'd speed up the process of discovery. An unfinished project would be completed by the man who left it unfinished... If only we lived longer.

So that is what you decided to question, what do you think about the other ideas found within this thread?

[jakell]

I think the ideas here are too diffuse, diverse and presented with a lack of focus and discipline. Potentially a trap for the less mature internet user, but I've learned to skim such stuff.
The criteria I use for such skimming is actually present in my chosen focus here... limited lifespan (ie, I haven't got the time), and limits in general. I'll limit myself to limits for the time being.

Sooo.. to Tesla et al. There is no guarantee at all whether a longer life would have increased their productivity, mainly because they do not operate in a vacuum and their output is highly dependent on the cultures they live in, which they have little control over, where dull, uncreative and possibly stupid people and forces shape things.
That's the so-called 'negative' part of limits, but it's something we are stuck with. it's a predicament and to pretend it is merely another little problem to be solved is not a wise act. Rather than solve it we get around it via collaboration with colleagues, both contemporary and, via recorded systems of thought, through the ages (again, 'Man', not men).

My opinion is that an appreciation and acceptance of limitations actually makes us more creative and productive, not less, and that the removal of these can lead to a dulling of our sensibilities.

[RhetoricThug]

I think the ideas here are too diffuse, diverse and presented with a lack of focus and discipline.

Broad brush strokes may seem overwhelming at first, but look at the painting I just finished. Look, perhaps you're trained to sit down with multiple choice bubble tests, compartmentalized subjects, and a computer to help you 'connect the dots...' Sure, society doesn't expect you to 'think on your feet,' that's why we develop service environments. But just try to use your mind and grasp the ideas that you assume are too diffuse, diverse and presented with a lack of focus and discipline.

Potentially a trap for the less mature internet user, but I've learned to skim such stuff.

Instead of investigating the claims made here, you immediately assume that my material is potentially a trap, whatever that may mean, therefore you gleefully 'speed read' and google search your way to a half-appropriate response. You've demonstrated this skill before, when you skimmed through Steiner's history...

Remember: Steiner died in 1925, before the rise of the Nazis.
&
Due to the classification of this thread (It is registered under conspiracy theories) you sheepishly cite youtube conspiracy videos to interact with my post. I have a briefer analysis of why such a ritual may be public, and again this is from the world of Christian 'Truthers' such as R$E.

I could use a laugh... Please define less mature internet user. Perhaps the attention span of the internet user defines maturation? And perhaps savvy internet users are also careless readers.

The criteria I use for such skimming is actually present in my chosen focus here... limited lifespan (ie, I haven't got the time), and limits in general. I'll limit myself to limits for the time being.

Meaning to say: It's all about me, me, me, me, and my curious indisposition.

Sooo.. to Tesla et al. There is no guarantee at all whether a longer life would have increased their productivity, mainly because they do not operate in a vacuum and their output is highly dependent on the cultures they live in, which they have little control over, where dull, uncreative and possibly stupid people and forces shape things.

Yes, I'm aware that this is currently hypothetical, but the formula is rather simple. More time= more potential. You are right to say that Tesla had been limited by his culture. The emerging wall-street culture gobbled up his productivity.

That's the so-called 'negative' part of limits, but it's something we are stuck with. it's a predicament and to pretend it is merely another little problem to be solved is not a wise act.

Say that to the 'wise round tables' that wish to conquer the aging process. Some scientists view cellular aging as one curable disease.

Rather than solve it we get around it via collaboration with colleagues, both contemporary and, via recorded systems of thought, through the ages (again, 'Man', not men).

Right, the way we've always archived information... I'm not disputing that method, I'm saying that longer life spans would inevitably lead to more discoveries. BTW, instead of going around the mountain, why not move it or go through it with better technology?

My opinion is that an appreciation and acceptance of limitations actually makes us more creative and productive, not less, and that the removal of these can lead to a dulling of our sensibilities.

Great point. We know of the philosophic principle: Abundance creates apathy. More time= more time for distraction. And you are correct to inadvertently say 'struggles make us who we are.' However it is a matter of math & biology.

Let's say we have two control experiments. One group will die on day 100, the other group will die on day 400. If we place the two groups inside one environment composed of our 365 day Earth year, which group will discover the cycle of our four seasons first?

Lastly, increasing the human life span may be one prerequisite for space travel (I mean we may use cryogenics to freeze organisms and bypass the spacetime barrier, or develop faster than light travel...but...)

[jakell]

Your metaphor concerning the two groups is rather inadequate. Firstly, you may as well be talking about different species if their lifespans are so different ie, any comparison is pretty useless, and secondly you have made no provision for the passing on of knowledge from one generation to the next (the knowledge of Man, not men) which is needed if the metaphor is to represent humans at all.

[jakell]

I realise that the extending of human lifespan has little to do with the thread title but, as far as I can see, it's at least a tangible talking point. My own opinion is that what we have is quite adequate. There are philosophical ways of looking at this but, in my opinion, there is one overriding factor that cuts through all of those: it is wishful thinking that we can roll this out on a species-wide basis and the best we can do is conduct some limited freakish experiments... in an enormous irony, the subjects would outlive the scientists so we would again be falling back on systems of thought constructed by 'youthers'*

So, it seems we are talking of science fiction which, although fun, is not the greatest yardstick to use when discussing our current realities. My evocation of Zardoz and the Immortals above represents a fairly abstract poke at the idea of extended life (although it does address the possibility that it would be only for an elite). A more realistic example would be to consider the subject as addressed in Kim Stanley Robinson's 'Mars' Trilogy where anti-ageing treatments are developed in a small isolated community (Mars) and then eventually introduced to humanity at large (Earth), there again this runs into problems and it seems they can only be practically given to a limited number and, those that it is given to, even though this can be fairly large in number, become a sort-of elite.

* My term for those who retain a standard human lifespan

ETA: It seems that, by evoking an elite, I have inadvertently connected with the thread (and section) title after all. This is incidental though.

[RhetoricThug]

You are being unreasonable by obscuring such a simple metaphor.
Nonetheless, to be fair, perhaps I am simplifying one complex process.

I realise that the extending of human lifespan has little to do with the thread title but, as far as I can see, it's at least a tangible talking point. My own opinion is that what we have is quite adequate. There are philosophical ways of looking at this but, in my opinion, there is one overriding factor that cuts through all of those: it is wishful thinking that we can roll this out on a species-wide basis and the best we can do is conduct some limited freakish experiments... in an enormous irony, the subjects would outlive the scientists so we would again be falling back on systems of thought constructed by 'youthers'*

Extending the human lifespan will always be one of the goals of practical science, so I totally disagree with you. At this point, I think you may be out of the loop when it comes to bio-technologies. One does not simply 'shock' organisms (unless you have the opportunity to do just that through gulags or concentration camps/black sites), you incrementally test & perfect new technologies, gradually implementing new ways of living. Are you not familiar with Ray Kurzweil and the transhumanist platform? Lastly, youth instinctively try to make the world 'better,' what is the saying...'Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.' -George Orwell. The key word, imagine, because the imagination can change the world. They say death is the great equalizer, well, powerful people wish to conquer nature's equalizer, so their power and potential may be extended. Immortality lies dormant in the mind of our species, just look through our mythology... Yet today, science may allow us to realize our dreams. Please do some research and consider all the advanced research fields and the bio-tech before typing in a reply. I'm not talking about some 'comic book' story where we experiment on folks, I'm talking about real medical technologies that may reverse or stop the cellular aging process. Initially & logically, only wealthy elites will be able to afford 'Elysium' science, when human organs become replaceable parts/commodities exchanged through our market. For instance today- wealthy people may bypass a waiting list to get black market organs by using their purchasing power. So you better believe it, the day is coming when the average life expectancy for the prince will be notably (and nobly) longer than that of the pauper.

So, it seems we are talking of science fiction which, although fun, is not the greatest yardstick to use when discussing our current realities.

You tell me that in 15 years. By your definition of science fiction, theoretical physics should not be used to discuss our current realities. Science fiction usually represents one fully realized theory that has yet to be tested/applied. Why do you think 2001 A Space Odyssey (Arthur C. Clarke/Kubrick's film) ended with artificial intelligence? Science fiction anticipates the potential of future technologies like theoretical physics anticipates the potential of our reality.

My evocation of Zardoz and the Immortals above represents a fairly abstract poke at the idea of extended life (although it does address the possibility that it would be only for an elite). A more realistic example would be to consider the subject as addressed in Kim Stanley Robinson's 'Mars' Trilogy where anti-ageing treatments are developed in a small isolated community (Mars) and then eventually introduced to humanity at large (Earth), there again this runs into problems and it seems they can only be practically given to a limited number and, those that it is given to, even though this can be fairly large in number, become a sort-of elite.

Does art imitate life or does life imitate art?


To get back on-topic... Quantum physics may allow average people to 'grasp' a world view that is defined by 'hidden' operation(s). It may be one of the first scientifically quantifiable methods to shed light upon hidden realities (beyond the five senses & empirical evidence). Secret societies operate in the dark, like particle information vibrating to form the whole scene. I'm getting ah-lil tired of trying to explain it... So let me put it this way, since 'thread fatigue'be setting in... Everyday various forms of the black market surrounds you, drug trade, arms trade, off the record transactions, etc... You don't 'see' (unless they mess up or you are actively involved in it) the black market operate within your society, but it certainly has its own impact on society. Secret societies may be compared to economic black markets, they operate off the record, forming political cartels, exchanging ideas instead of drugs (sometimes both). Face it, 'surface symptoms' tend to be (by)products of 'below the surface' interactions.

[jakell]

I'm not at all sure that Quantum Physics qualifies for the 'thread topic' any more than any thing else mentioned, those mentions have been isolated and recent and don't seem to connect with the early parts of the thread at all. We do have a tangible sequence of posts relating to human lifespan though.
I'll have a go at addressing both here:


Your mentions of quantum physics here seem to go along the lines of "Quantum field theory had been the scientific approach for unveiling the hidden or internal realm of life that dictates our external experience" and, from above, "Quantum physics may allow average people to 'grasp' a world view that is defined by 'hidden' operation(s).."

These claims seem rather ambitious to me and could do with some supporting, especially as the field requires a great deal of time and effort to understand, most people will bow out gracefully (and wisely) like Donald, so I can't see how it would aid the 'average person' at all, unless you can show this.

Fortunately for me, I've delved into quantum theory sufficiently to understand its limitations and regard it as a rather obscure (but accurate) description of a realm that we don't really access on our macro level, ie it can be safely discarded and regarded as an oddity.
A great deal of science describes 'hidden realms', but this last in no way opens the door for general mystical and metaphysical understandings. Granted, Quantum physics is strange, but its focus is pretty tightly defined and it can't really be used to address other things in our world that are said to be strange, unless you can show otherwise.

======================================


So, to Human lifespan and Science. I think you are disagreeing with this of mine: "My own opinion is that what we have is quite adequate", and you respond with this "Extending the human lifespan will always be one of the goals of practical science.

Certainly 'Science' has many goals, they multiply all the time via thought experiments, but on a practical level this one has only borne fruit by using medical science to keep old people alive for a bit longer, and I think you have been reaching for something quite different to that ie, the extending of a person's productive life via genetic engineering on a species-wide level. This seems a vastly more ambitious proposition.

Unless this can be achieved on a species-wide level, you are going to be limited to some freakish experiments that, at best, result in a tiny group of long-lifers, the rest of the human race will carry on in its usual fecund manner and keep them insignificant, aided by the momentum of politics and ingrained social attitudes. (a solution would have to be of the 'Mars' type)

Is it such an elite you have in mind?

[RhetoricThug]

Fortunately for me, I've delved into quantum theory sufficiently to understand its limitations and regard it as a rather obscure (but accurate) description of a realm that we don't really access on our macro level, ie it can be safely discarded and regarded as an oddity.
A great deal of science describes 'hidden realms', but this last in no way opens the door for general mystical and metaphysical understandings. Granted, Quantum physics is strange, but its focus is pretty tightly defined and it can't really be used to address other things in our world that are said to be strange, unless you can show otherwise.

https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=166323
Jakell, you make me laugh, because you're an intellectual midget like the rest of the PoFo community. This is the information age, everything is connected. Yet, everything I write is outdated, due to the 'knowledge doubling curve.'

In-fact, PoFo posters are so naive that one may conclude that they are trolls or gatekeepers. Just take a look at the 4chan quality posts and meme beams coming in... Look familiar? viewtopic.php?f=50&t=166261

Gatekeepers: Editors, producers, and other media managers who function as message filters, making decisions about what types of messages actually get produced for particular audiences.

Check out this guy:

In a certain sense, everything is conspiratorial, Donald. Every mass movement begins as a small group of like-minded individuals who are not well-known to the public (usually because of their small numbers and obscurity rather than any deliberate attempt to conceal themselves). In this sense, the Christian Church certain began as a 'conspiracy', and was treated as such by the Roman authorities. Likewise, the Communist movement began as a 'conspiracy', the Nazi movement began as a 'conspiracy' (the Thule Society), and so on and so forth. It doesn't mean very much.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=166414

I wrote,

I'm far more concerned with the fact that many secret society members tend to be contemporary 'movers & shakers.' Throughout history various occult organizations become political role players on the world stage. From the time of the Egyptian 'priest class,' which hoarded knowledge of the stars to control the minds of the masses, to classified patents and undisclosed special access projects... Knowledge is power.

Francis Bacon wrote: “scientia potestas est”

PoFo posters are obsessed with surface symptoms, or the tip of the iceberg. Did you know that the surface web contains about 5% of the internet?

US intelligence chief: we might use the internet of things to spy on you

James Clapper did not name specific agency as being involved in surveillance via smart-home devices but said in congressional testimony it is a distinct possibility

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... es-clapper

Internet of things will connect everything to the digital panopticon

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=166025&p=14709204#p14709204

Panopticon: a building, as a prison, hospital, library, or the like, so arranged that all parts of the interior are visible from a single point.

In 2014 I wrote:

The internet is Matrix-esque, at least conceptually. Building a world within a world essentially, whereas one must be connected to a digital grid in order to participate in societal exchange. A digital grid that is controlled by a group of technical elite (private corporations most likely) backed by the centralised legal system of government. All of which reflects the core definition of technocracy. My hypothetical predictions are as valid as anything else, because we really do not know what a real technocratic system will look like. I however argue that we are living its precursor. If you cannot understand that, then I think you will be perfectly oblivious when such a system is fully implemented.

viewtopic.php?t=156474

Secret societies & bureaucracies operate under the same umbrella.


My final point, technology reorganizes society. Your finite sensibilities vs infinite potentiality.

@13:20 in the video below-"In quantum mechanics there is this concept that a thing can exist in two states, which are mutually exclusive, at the same time. I'm using those words because the English language was developed before we had concepts to describe what these things actually are doing." And you wonder why I sound 'crazy.' I'm using quantum dialectic and you fail to grasp it.

[jakell]

I'm not at all sure that Quantum Physics qualifies for the 'thread topic' any more than any thing else mentioned, those mentions have been isolated and recent and don't seem to connect with the early parts of the thread at all. We do have a tangible sequence of posts relating to human lifespan though.
I'll have a go at addressing both here:


Your mentions of quantum physics here seem to go along the lines of "Quantum field theory had been the scientific approach for unveiling the hidden or internal realm of life that dictates our external experience" and, from above, "Quantum physics may allow average people to 'grasp' a world view that is defined by 'hidden' operation(s).."

These claims seem rather ambitious to me and could do with some supporting, especially as the field requires a great deal of time and effort to understand, most people will bow out gracefully (and wisely) like Donald, so I can't see how it would aid the 'average person' at all, unless you can show this.

Fortunately for me, I've delved into quantum theory sufficiently to understand its limitations and regard it as a rather obscure (but accurate) description of a realm that we don't really access on our macro level, ie it can be safely discarded and regarded as an oddity.
A great deal of science describes 'hidden realms', but this last in no way opens the door for general mystical and metaphysical understandings. Granted, Quantum physics is strange, but its focus is pretty tightly defined and it can't really be used to address other things in our world that are said to be strange, unless you can show otherwise.

======================================


So, to Human lifespan and Science. I think you are disagreeing with this of mine: "My own opinion is that what we have is quite adequate", and you respond with this "Extending the human lifespan will always be one of the goals of practical science.

Certainly 'Science' has many goals, they multiply all the time via thought experiments, but on a practical level this one has only borne fruit by using medical science to keep old people alive for a bit longer, and I think you have been reaching for something quite different to that ie, the extending of a person's productive life via genetic engineering on a species-wide level. This seems a vastly more ambitious proposition.

Unless this can be achieved on a species-wide level, you are going to be limited to some freakish experiments that, at best, result in a tiny group of long-lifers, the rest of the human race will carry on in its usual fecund manner and keep them insignificant, aided by the momentum of politics and ingrained social attitudes. (a solution would have to be of the 'Mars' type)

Is it such an elite you have in mind?

https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=166323
Jakell, you make me laugh, because you're an intellectual midget like the rest of the PoFo community. This is the information age, everything is connected. Yet, everything I write is outdated, due to the 'knowledge doubling curve.'

In-fact, PoFo posters are so naive that one may conclude that they are trolls or gatekeepers. Just take a look at the 4chan quality posts and meme beams coming in... Look familiar? viewtopic.php?f=50&t=166261

Gatekeepers: Editors, producers, and other media managers who function as message filters, making decisions about what types of messages actually get produced for particular audiences. .....

I don't mind being a midget, especially as I am allegedly in the company of many other midgets. I tend not to get hung up upon the quantity of intellect (which you seem to be driving at here), but the quality, a significant element being the desire and ability to find parity with others. The identifying of and cleaving to a subject matter is one of the fundamentals of this.
I will assume that you did have an elite in mind in the above.

I was amused that you felt the need to define 'gatekeeper' as it is one of the few terms that is self-descriptive enough not to need it.