Historical Evidence That Jesus Christ visted Spain - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14843115
Since many people believe that Jesus occupied some kind of mythical time and space, the idea of his voyage to Spain sounds impossible. Most people have a quaint perception that Jesus spent his entire “ministry” – prior to going to Jerusalem where he was crucified – in northern Israel, walking along the shores of a tiny fresh water lake called the “Sea of Galilee”. But is this historical reality or theological fantasy? Did Jesus really spend his entire life in Israel? Or did he travel elsewhere, namely, Spain?

The fact is that Santiago de Compostela, in Galicia in northwestern Spain, is one of the three most important pilgrimage sites for Christians (the other two being Rome and Jerusalem). Traditionally, it’s the place where James, one of Jesus’ twelve apostles, is buried. If James could make it to Spain, why not Jesus? The apostle Paul also declares his intention of traveling to Spain (Romans 15:24), and some Christian traditions say that he made it there. If Paul could travel to Spain, why not Jesus?

Here’s the shocker: according to the Gospels, Jesus undertook an adventurous sea journey to a place called “the land of the Gadarenes”. Where is this place? Why did Jesus go there? And why has this story been covered up for over two millennia?

http://www.simchajtv.com/the-lost-voyage-of-jesus/

#14843117
Numerous scholars suggest that the cult of St James in Spain has not been around longer than the 9th century AD, this suggests that it is unlikely that the remains belong to the apostle from the times of Jesus. There is also no record connected with his grave from a period before early medieval times.
Who is in the Coffin?

James is believed to have been killed in Jerusalem. Sources say that his remains were traveling to Galicia. However, it is hard to say for certain who is buried in the catacombs in Santiago de Compostela. More than a few possible answers are reasonable. Some archaeological studies suggest that the skeleton in the silver coffin may come from a pre-Christian cemetery located near the current cathedral. Another hypothesis suggests that it could be the remains of Prisciliano of Avila, a Spanish bishop accused of heresy.

Apart from the coffin with the remains of St James, there is one more biblical artifact in Galicia. In the Romanic church in Cambre, near A Coruña is a nearly 2000-year-old artifact. Legend says that it was transported from Jerusalem to Galicia. Research performed by Galician archaeologists suggests that it may be true. Is this object connected with the remains of St James? It seems unlikely, although the story of the ancient remains still brings more questions than answers.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/history/ ... ela-005730


It's believed that the remains of James were transported from Jerusalem to Galicia, where he was buried in the small city of Pradon, and he was later transported to the church in Santiago de Compostela, the capital city of Galicia, Spain. James had never traveled to Hispania when he was alive. In Jesus's time, Spain was a pagan territory inhabited by various tribes such as the Lusitani, a group of warlike tribes who resisted Roman domination.
#14843125
ThirdTerm wrote:It's believed that the remains of James were transported from Jerusalem to Galicia, where he was buried in the small city of Pradon, and he was later transported to the church in Santiago de Compostela, the capital city of Galicia, Spain. James had never traveled to Hispania when he was alive. In Jesus's time, Spain was a pagan territory inhabited by various tribes such as the Lusitani, a group of warlike tribes who resisted Roman domination.

Are you referring to James the brother of John or James the brother of Jesus?

Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. The Lord’s hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.

News of this reached the church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts. He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.) The disciples, as each one was able, decided to provide help for the brothers and sisters living in Judea. This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.

(Acts 11:19-30 NIV)

It was about this time that King Herod arrested some who belonged to the church, intending to persecute them. He had James, the brother of John, put to death with the sword.
(Acts 12:1-2 NIV)

James the brother of John (Matthew 4:21) was put to death (Acts 12:2) very early in the Christian movement and could not have traveled to Spain. So if you are referring to that James then I would agree.

James the brother of Jesus (Galatians 1:19) remained alive as can be seen by the later references to him in Acts 12:17; 15:13-29: 21:17-18). James was apparently converted when Jesus appeared to him after the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:3-9). He is the one that is believed to have written the Epistle of James in the New Testament. Praise the Lord.
#14845955
On second thought, James the brother of John was one of the original twelve disciples and could have traveled with Jesus and the other disciples on that sea journey to a place called “the land of the Gadarenes” in Spain. But they all returned to Israel from that sea voyage.

http://www.simchajtv.com/the-lost-tribe-of-gad-found/
#14845957

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1. Country of the Gadarenes:

This city is not named in Scripture, but the territory belonging to it is spoken of as chora ton Gadarenon, "country of the Gadarenes" (Matthew 8:28). In the parallel passages (Mark 5:1 Luke 8:26, 37) we read: chora ton Gerasenon "country of the Gerasenes." There is no good reason, however, to question the accuracy of the text in either case. The city of Gadara is represented today by the ruins of Umm Qeis on the heights south of el-Chummeh-the hot springs in the Yarmuk valley-about 6 miles Southeast of the Sea of Galilee. It maybe taken as certain that the jurisdiction of Gadara, as the chief city in these regions, extended over the country East of the Sea, including the lands of the subordinate town, GERASA (which see). The figure of a ship frequently appears on its coins: conclusive. proof that its territory reached the sea. The place might therefore be called with propriety, either "land of the Gerasenes," with reference to the local center, or "land of the Gadarenes," with reference to the superior city.

2. History:

The name Gadara appears to be Semitic It is still heard in Jedur, which attaches to the ancient rock tombs, with sarcophagi, to the East of the present ruins. They are closed by carved stone doors, and are used as storehouses for grain, and also as dwellings by the inhabitants. The place is not mentioned till later times. It was taken by Antiochus the Great when in 218 B.C. he first invaded Palestine (Polyb. v.71). Alexander Janneus invested the place, and reduced it after a ten months' siege (Ant., XIII, iii, 3; BJ, I, iv, 2). Pompey is said to have restored it, 63 B.C. (Ant., XIV, iv, 4; BJ, I, vii, 7); from which it would appear to have declined in Jewish hands. He gave it a free constitution. From this date the era of the city was reckoned. It was the seat of one of the councils instituted by Gabinius for the government of the Jews (Ant., XIV, v, 4; BJ, I, viii, 5). It was given by Augustus to Herod the Great in 30 B.C. (Ant., XV, vii, 3; BJ, I, xx, 3). The emperor would not listen to the accusations of the inhabitants against Herod for oppressive conduct (Ant., XV, x, 2). After Herod's death it was joined to the province of Syria, 4 B.C. (Ant., XVII, xi, 4; BJ, II, vi, 3). At the beginning of the Jewish revolt the country around Gadara was laid waste (BJ, II, xviii, 1). The Gadarenes captured some of the boldest of the Jews, of whom several were put to death, and others imprisoned (ibid., 5). A party in the city surrendered it to Vespasian, who placed a garrison there (BJ, IV, vii, 3). It continued to be a great and important city, and was long the seat of a bishop (Reland, Palestine, 776). With the conquest of the Moslems it passed under eclipse, and is now an utter ruin.

http://bibleatlas.org/gadara.htm


Jesus and his disciples travelled to the land of the Gerasenes or the Gadarenes, which is the area around the cities of Gerasa and Gadara. James, the son of Zebedee and brother to John, was a local missionary in Judea and he was killed by Herod and was buried there.
#14846001
ThirdTerm wrote:Jesus and his disciples travelled to the land of the Gerasenes or the Gadarenes, which is the area around the cities of Gerasa and Gadara. James, the son of Zebedee and brother to John, was a local missionary in Judea and he was killed by Herod and was buried there.

So are you saying the Dead sea area is were the story occurred? What was the city by the sea? Where are the tombs in the caves and the cliff were the pigs went into the sea a drowned? And wouldn't the pigs float in the Dead Sea like people do today?

Did you watch the video closely and read the following:

The traditional view is that all this happened on Israel’s Lake Kinneret, known in English as the “Sea of Galilee”. According to the traditional Christian view, Jesus crossed the tiny Galilean lake to the other side, landed in what is today Kursi and then proceeded to perform his miracles with the demonics and the swine. There’s a byzantine monastery commemorating the event at Kursi, and a nearby cave has been designated as the “cave of the demonics”.

Writing on the Jesus episode with the demonics, Porphyry casts doubt on the whole story: “There is no ‘Sea’ in the locality [i.e., the Galilee],” he says, “but only a tiny lake which springs from a river that flows through the hills of Galilee near Tiberius. Small boats can get across it in two hours and the lake is too small to have seen whitecaps caused by a storm.”

Some people say that since there was a confederation of non-Jewish cities on the east side of Jordan called the Decapolis, Jesus must’ve been sailing there. This is a way of justifying the swine. But the whole story doesn’t fit. You can jog from Capernaum to Kursi in a matter of minutes, at most hours. Nothing – I repeat – nothing fits – not the geology, and not the archeology.


Jacobovici begins by examining the story as found in Luke , and immediately has trouble with the geography central to the story. The problem is that Jesus and his disciples cross the 'body of water' to minister to the Gadarenes, and of the three possible places on the opposite side of what is essentially a lake, can be found no place that really satisfies the requirements of the story.

There are some cliffs, but none that have ever come close to the edge of the water. There is no necropolis, from which the demoniac dwelled. And there is no evidence of any pig bones in the region. An examination of the original Greek reveals that the word used for the body of water was that for 'sea' and not used for that of a lake. There also does not seem to be enough room for a person to lay down and sleep on a typical fishing vessel used on the Sea of Galilee of the day. Jesus was said to have slept through a great storm until awakened, before he calmed the storm. Compared to the ocean or the Mediterranean there are no real great storms on the Sea of Galilee, and besides one is never more than 15 minutes from the shore.

Next Jacobovic and an associate visit a place in Jerusalem that claims to have the oldest manuscript of Luke known, and find that it has a passage deleted from subsequent versions. This passage has Jesus unhappily inform some questioners of the sign they are looking for, and that this sign refers to the story of Jonah.

Jonah is identified as the son of Amittai, and he appears in 2 Kings aka 4 Kings as a prophet from Gath-Hepher, a few miles north of Nazareth. He is therein described as being active during the reign of the second King Jeroboam (c.786–746 BC), and as predicting that Jeroboam will recover certain lost territories.

Jonah is the central character in the Book of Jonah. Commanded by God to go to the city of Nineveh to prophesy against it "for their great wickedness is come up before me," Jonah instead seeks to flee from "the presence of the Lord" by going to Jaffa, identified as Joppa or Joppe, and sailing to Tarshish, which, geographically, is in the opposite direction. A huge storm arises and the sailors, realizing that it is no ordinary storm, cast lots and discover that Jonah is to blame. Jonah admits this and states that if he is thrown overboard, the storm will cease. The sailors try to dump as much cargo as possible before giving up, but feel forced to throw him overboard, at which point the sea calms. The sailors then offer sacrifices to God. Jonah is miraculously saved by being swallowed by a large whale-like fish in whose belly he spends three days and three nights. While in the great fish, Jonah prays to God in his affliction and commits to thanksgiving and to paying what he has vowed. God commands the fish to spew Jonah out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah

Here, Jonah is going to Jaffa, a port on the Mediterranean and so obviously is going to sail on that sea, to Tarshish. While there is some debate about just where Tarshish was, one theory is that it was on the south Atlantic coast of Spain, just outside the gates of Gibraltar. Another researcher, not mentioned by Jacobovici has recently found a site just north of Cadiz that seems to match the actual site description for Tarshish. But importantly for this scenario, there are a lot of Gad names in the region, including Cadiz, which was known as Gadez. Others such as Guadalajara, Guadalupe, etc..

By the way, your reference has this backward:
In the KJV, Matthew is the one that has "Gergesenes" and Mark and Luke both have it as" Gadarenes" -- Most modern versions even translate Matthew 8:28 with "Gadarenes" but a few have it as "Gerasenes" just for your info. I think the video makes a pretty good argument for the Mediterranean Sea as the the sea they were crossing. But he could be wrong also. Praise the Lord. HalleluYah.

I have a copy of the Majority Text Greek New Testament and the Greek word translate as does the KJV. But on biblehub.com, they seem to be using another text of the Greek new Testament versions, probably the Nestle-Aland version of the Greek New Testament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_New_Testament

http://biblehub.com/matthew/8-28.htm
http://biblehub.com/mark/5-1.htm
http://biblehub.com/luke/8-26.htm

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