[Pants-of-dog]

You quoted the Introduction of “Child Prostitution and Sex Tourism: Cuba”.

So did you. I just showed the rest of the paragraph that followed directly after the line you quoted.

Why you did that? Well most of the introduction is part of what Margaret Randall, a political and feminist activist, and a known communist sympathizer, wrote in her book “Cuban Women Now”, in 1974. Obviously, if you look at whole report, you took it out of contest to rebut my argument.

I did that to show everyone that you were taking quotes out of context (note the spelling).

Did you read the report or you took Pants-of-Dog words for it?, or as you said “it's like he ignored the bulk of the information that directly contradicted his position in order to pull out one quote that sort of says what he wants it to! I mean...that's not possible, is it? Can someone really be that dishonest? I can't believe it is so!” I can’t either.

The rest of the ECPAT’s study debunks the stereotypes clamed in Margaret book.
...
The references given by the report contradict her statement.
...
The ECPAT report deals mostly with child prostitution:
...
Well, prostitution haven’t been eradicated and “wealthy foreign 'playboys”' keep visiting the island.
...

None of that supports your claim that "In Cuba, the link between tourism and prostitution is ... more direct than in any other country which hosts sex tourists."

When I find the comments of others worth of a reply, I do so. Look back on this topic on Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:17 pm, you post: “Let's put some quotes in context, shall we?”, and I answer back on Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:21 am.
...
Do you have your own viewpoints? Other than attack and insult me, you don’t comments on the articles and commentaries that I post, nor provide your opinions and/or experiences.

Do I have to remind you of the forum rules? : “Debate and argument will be directed toward issues and post content, not toward other forum members.”

None of this has anything to do with the debate.

[Sandokan]

None of that supports your claim that "In Cuba, the link between tourism and prostitution is ... more direct than in any other country which hosts sex tourists."

"In Cuba, the link between tourism and prostitution is perhaps more direct than in any other country that hosts sex tourists", is the first sentence in the Introduction of the ECPAT’s study, “Child Prostitution and Sex Tourism: Cuba.” It is not my “claim” as you say. By the way you edited the world “perhaps from the sentence.

Are you a Castro usefully idiot to not see the reality of what the Castro brothers dictatorship have done to the Cubans, but only the images projected by the propaganda machine of the regime? Take a closer look and you will see the current state of the Cubans staring you in the face.

None of this has anything to do with the debate.

The response quoted by you, doesn't has anything to do with you, it was addressed to yiwahikanak.

The trafficking of Cuban women and children for commercial sex, are encourage by their families to obtain food or money. Hotel workers, taxi drivers and the security personnel involved in the tourist industry, facilitate the commercial sexual exploitation of women and children by tourists, meanwhile the corrupt regime authorities look the other way.

The regime provides very little information on child prostitution, and block human right organizations from finding out about human rights abuses. The regime doesn’t acknowledge that child sex trafficking exist. The regime economy profits from sex tourism in order to prop up the worker's paradise. It is ironic that the regime, because its economic problems and the revenue the sex trade generates, allow it to attracts more tourists. As Yoani Sanchez says, “the cycle of sex for money comes full circle.” What a shame.

[Pants-of-dog]

"In Cuba, the link between tourism and prostitution is perhaps more direct than in any other country that hosts sex tourists", is the first sentence in the Introduction of the ECPAT’s study, “Child Prostitution and Sex Tourism: Cuba.” It is not my “claim” as you say. By the way you edited the world “perhaps from the sentence.

Are you a Castro usefully idiot to not see the reality of what the Castro brothers dictatorship have done to the Cubans, but only the images projected by the propaganda machine of the regime? Take a closer look and you will see the current state of the Cubans staring you in the face.

I know that I left out a word in the sentence you used as a claim. That is why I put in the ellipses, as is commonly used to indicate an intentional omission. And you still have not supported that claim.

The response quoted by you, doesn't has anything to do with you, it was addressed to yiwahikanak.

The trafficking of Cuban women and children for commercial sex, are encourage by their families to obtain food or money. Hotel workers, taxi drivers and the security personnel involved in the tourist industry, facilitate the commercial sexual exploitation of women and children by tourists, meanwhile the corrupt regime authorities look the other way.

The regime provides very little information on child prostitution, and block human right organizations from finding out about human rights abuses. The regime doesn’t acknowledge that child sex trafficking exist. The regime economy profits from sex tourism in order to prop up the worker's paradise. It is ironic that the regime, because its economic problems and the revenue the sex trade generates, allow it to attracts more tourists. As Yoani Sanchez says, “the cycle of sex for money comes full circle.” What a shame.

Please provide evidence for your claims. Thank you.

[Sandokan]

Accused of homicide after wild party in Cuba
http://www.lanazione.it/firenze/cronaca ... sato.shtml

Florentine in prison in Havana. "I am innocent, I signed a document under torture"

Florence, January 11, 2011 - For six months in prison in Cuba, accused of the homicide of a young girl. But he says he is innocent, and wants to prove that at the party of sex and drugs, during which a minor prostitute died for the abuse of drugs, he has never participated.

More: Simone Pini, 43 years old, Florentine, 14 May 2010, the day when, inside of a hotel, was found the death body of a 12 years old, he was in Italy. They could try, in addition to the testimony of family members, the many regular things done by Pini between March 30, the day of his return to Rome, and May 24, when he returned to Bayamo, Granma province, where the ex- Cuban wife of the Florentine and their son lives. Dinners with friends in Florence, a charge account Post pay; an eye examination at Careggi hospital and a traffic ticket by the police in Campi Bisenzio.
All of this clashes with the allegations, supported by a document signed by the same Pini, in possession of the Cuban police, confirming his illegal entry to the Caribbean island. For the police Pini was illegally in Cuba, despite the visa on the passport proving otherwise, and, based on some testimonies, he participated in the red light gathering where the tragedy took place. “That signature was extracted with torture and also threats of execution,” Simone desperate wrote in the last letter from Combinado del Este prison in Havana, sent home before Christmas.

In addition to Pini, two other Italian tourists have been quietly jailed in connection with the girl death by the regime.

The media foreign bureaus in Cuba didn’t reported the death of a 12 year-old child prostitute, allegedly murdered by foreign tourists, that took place over six months ago in the city of Bayamo. They don’t tell the world what is really happening in Cuba. Unfortunately, child prostitution is a tragic reality in Cuba. What a shame, the Castros regime pushing 12 years old girls into prostitution.

[Sandokan]

For the foreign news bureaus in the island in order to keep a bureau, they need to walk a fine line with the regime. This means to be quite selective and careful of how they cover the news. They can’t report stories that, in a certain way, upset or endanger the regime. In other words, reporting the truth without fear of retaliation. They are willing to prostitute their talent in violation of their principles, to toe the party line in order to keep their bureaus in the island.

[redcarpet]

They are willing to prostitute their talent in violation of their principles

Corporate media does that already. They had already sold themselves out by the time they set up shop in Havana.

[Sandokan]

It is very unfortunate and tragic what happened, but when a 12 year old girl is using drugs, if she had lived, her future looks very dismal. The secrecy and absent of clarity in the regime judicial system, makes these unfortunate incidents possible. Of course Castros apologists will blame it on the US embargo.

[yiwahikanak]

Riiight. Because every drug addicted raped and murdered 12 year old gets reported in the US and Canada.

Let's not even mention all the missing and murdered aboriginal women who go completely unnoticed.

Spare us your bullshit. How about I give you a list of the estimated 3000-5000 murdered and missing aboriginal women in Canada? Or why don't we talk about the hundreds of raped and murdered women from Ciudad Juarez in Mexico? What if I did that and actually tried to claim, hey this is all because capitalism is inherently evil?

You constantly attempt, without any success at all, to use your examples as proof that communism is inherently bad. Yet you ignore the worse atrocities that happen in capitalist systems.

Do you not realise that if someone were stupid enough to buy into your proposition (communism causes homophobia and murdered 12 year olds) that they would have to analyse the odds under capitalism on similar criteria, and run SCREAMING from it?

Thank goodness your 'proof' is idiotic and it's obvious. Else you'd be damaging your 'position' (that people should move away from communism and dictatorships) even more than you seem to realise.

[Sandokan]

Can be any doubt where CNN's political loyalties lie? They always have been apologists for the Left, and will continue to do so. After all, what means a few years of disinformation if they get to keep their Havana bureau. Remember that before 2003, CNN reporters who wanted access to Iraq knew that they had to toe the Saddam line. Castro didn’t need to “censor” CNN. CNN censored itself.

[Ombrageux]

Can be any doubt where CNN's political loyalties lie?

With their corporate overlords?

[yiwahikanak]

I notice Sandokan did not even come close to addressing the flaw in his argument.

[Sandokan]

Ted Turner’s founder of CNN aka Castro News Network, is outspoken about his leftwing political views. He calls himself “a socialist at heart.” He is a long time admired of Fidel Castro, whom he called “one hell of a guy.” He told a class at Harvard Law School, “You’d like him. He has been the leader of Cuba for 40 years. He’s the most senior leader in the world, and most of the people that are still in Cuba like him.”


From left to right: Luigi Sartorio, Simone Pini, Angelo Malavasi, Italians jailed in connection with the case

[bslash51]

Fidel Castro is one sick person for this. More than that,he has no brain

[brian1234]

The Govt. should focus on developing strict rules for the tourism so that the tourism industry will increase gradually.The business men are taking away money and the rules are not working properly.Finally the children from the lower class family are suffering from these activities.Also there should be some pressure from the international level so that it will be controlled.

[Xbow]

Sandokan hasn't mentioned why he never addressed the much larger child prostitution and sex slave trade in Batista's Cuba. Even though I have challenged him to do so on several occasions. With that being the case Sandokan can be ignored completely. I sure AiNt! going to worry about charges of child prostitution in Cuba because Sandokan says so.

[Sandokan]

Sandokan hasn't mentioned why he never addressed the much larger child prostitution and sex slave trade in Batista's Cuba. Even though I have challenged him to do so on several occasions. With that being the case Sandokan can be ignored completely. I sure AiNt! going to worry about charges of child prostitution in Cuba because Sandokan says so.

Before Fidel Castro rose to power in 1959, prostitutes were register by the Ministry of Health and Welfare, which issued them a health card, without which they could not exert prostitution. There were zones of tolerance where the prostitutes could “work”, for example: the neighborhood of Colon, in the center of Havana. In 1958 there were about 10,000 prostitutes register by the Ministry of Health and Welfare

Cuba was estimate to have about 11,500 persons, including prostitutes pimps, madams and maids, making a living from prostitution in 1958. That number now is estimate around 100,000. In 1958 the Cuban population was 6.6 million, and in 2010 was estimate at 11.3 million. If no increase in prostitution had occurred, the actual number of prostitutes shall be close to 20,000. The prostitution under the regime has increased closed to a tenfold. Castro brothers turned the island into a huge brothel. As Yoani says “Havana has the air of a brothel.”

[Xbow]

Before Fidel Castro rose to power in 1959, prostitutes were register by the Ministry of Health and Welfare, which issued them a health card, without which they could not exert prostitution. There were zones of tolerance where the prostitutes could “work”, for example: the neighborhood of Colon, in the centre of Havana. In 1958 there were about 10,000 prostitutes register by the Ministry of Health and Welfare

[mod edit] there were more that 10,000 hookers in Pre Castro Cuba. And what about all those perverted queer prostitutes that Che had to round up and toss in jail, or the kids that Batista's goons provided to Meyer Lansky's list of elite pederast customers.

That number now is estimate around 100,000.

[mod edit] prove it or admit that you just pulled that number out of your ass. And No anti Castro websites do not count as proof and neither do pro Castro websites. I await your proof with baited breath.

[Rancid]

I wonder if Kurt took advantage of the cheap sex while he was in Cuba.

[Sandokan]

“The prostitution in this country with a little more than 6 million people had 100,000 prostitutes.” Fidel Castro speech, September 28, 1977

Cuba had a population of 6.6 million in 1958. On February 14, 1958, El Mundo newspaper ran a feature that addressed the social problem of prostitution, estimating in 11,000 the number of people engaged in this type of activity. This figure was more or less confirmed by the Bohemia magazine that reported 12,000 in 1958, in various official publications of the regime like the newspaper Revolución in 1959, and early documents of the Federación de Mujeres Cubanas dealing with the labor relocation of prostitutes. In 1984 the figure was also confirmed by the regime “Editorial de Ciencias Sociales” in a publication under the title “In the last year that republic.” Castro by an act of magic increased that number to a 100,000. These official publications figure puts Castro in the prisoners' dock for fraud and slanderer.

There is a very simple answer to the problem of prostitution: change the regime and the problem for the most part will solve itself, since the women will no longer need to prostitute themselves out of necessity. This is the result of the poverty created by 53 years of dictatorship.