[Negotiator]

Today I waterboarded myself [...]

I am utterly confused how anyone could possibly believe this would be a valid test.

Thats like saying:

Today I told my wife to rape me and it wasnt unpleasant, therefore rape is not unpleasant.

Yeah, if its your wife, on your initiative, and under your control.

I dont understand how such an original posting could possibly create a many page long thread.

[Negotiator]

I'm going to be controversial now, and ask if there are any circumstances under which you guys might find waterboarding someone to be acceptable.

Are there any such situations?

Waterboarding is one of the most extreme forms of torture, and it has killed people. So nope, not acceptable, ever. Just like any other form of torture.

Yeah I think it should be used for atleast 2 hours on any politician that votes for it.

Actually a mere 5 minutes would be more than enough. Would also reduce the danger of losing someone, because as I just said - Waterboarding can and does kill people.

[Arkady2009]

Today I waterboarded myself in the bathtub. I only lasted about 8 seconds and then I pulled away. The problem is that having water being poured down your nostrils is extremely uncomfortable. You not only can't breathe but it's much worse than simply holding your breath. The water going into your mouth and nostrils just feels really uncomfortable.

However, I must say that I do not believe this is torture. Torture would be getting put in the iron maiden. This is just really uncomfortable. That's what I think anyway.

You cannnot waterboard yourself. Someone else does it, and you have no control over when it ends. I also disagree with your notion that it is not torture. The only people who claim waterboarding isn't torture are those who advocate it. They need to justify it to themselves so they keep telling themselves that its all okay, even though they know it isn't.

[Dr House]

Today I waterboarded myself in the bathtub. I only lasted about 8 seconds and then I pulled away. The problem is that having water being poured down your nostrils is extremely uncomfortable. You not only can't breathe but it's much worse than simply holding your breath. The water going into your mouth and nostrils just feels really uncomfortable.

However, I must say that I do not believe this is torture. Torture would be getting put in the iron maiden. This is just really uncomfortable. That's what I think anyway.

You cannnot waterboard yourself. Someone else does it, and you have no control over when it ends. I also disagree with your notion that it is not torture. The only people who claim waterboarding isn't torture are those who advocate it. They need to justify it to themselves so they keep telling themselves that its all okay, even though they know it isn't.

I don't think TruePolitics advocates waterboarding. I, on the other hand, am not so much of a wimp that I'd much care if waterboarding was in fact torture, but he does have a point that as far as torture goes, waterboarding is a very mild form thereof -- which is precisely why it's being used by the US (the political repercussions of using unambiguously cold-blooded torture methods would be untenable for the US).

[Arkady2009]

I don't think TruePolitics advocates waterboarding. I, on the other hand, am not so much of a wimp that I'd much care if waterboarding was in fact torture, but he does have a point that as far as torture goes, waterboarding is a very mild form thereof -- which is precisely why it's being used by the US (the political repercussions of using unambiguously cold-blooded torture methods would be untenable for the US).

One question: If you have never experienced waterboarding yourself, how do you know it isn't torture? It sounds to me like it is, just like being locked in a cold room, hosed down with water, or being made to listen to loud music, or even being deprived of sleep.

[Dr House]

One question: If you have never experienced waterboarding yourself, how do you know it isn't torture?

It is torture (insofar as torture is defined as inflicting pain upon another as punishment or as an interrogation technique). It's a mild, perfectly survivable form of torture -- much moreso psychological than physical.

[Repeat to Fade]

It's a mild, perfectly survivable form of torture -- much moreso psychological than physical.

Ah to be ignorant.......

It is extremely painful, enforced laryngospasm is. Just because it leaves no scars doesn't mean it isn't agonising. I can think of some fun things to do to you house that would leave you no scars but would have you beg me to stop. Mild...... it forces submission in seconds, does that sound mild?

[Arkady2009]

It is torture (insofar as torture is defined as inflicting pain upon another as punishment or as an interrogation technique). It's a mild, perfectly survivable form of torture -- much moreso psychological than physical.

I must respectfully agree to disagree with you on this one.

[pojut]

Have any of you ever seen the movie "Unthinkable"? While it's unrealistic from an operational point of view, it does a FANTASTIC job of supporting and denouncing both sides of the torture argument simultaneously.

::self promotion engaged::

Here's my full review of it, if you're interested.

[Godstud]

There is no debate on torture if you actually speak to professionals and not John Q Public. There's a real reason why most countries don't torture people. It's ineffective.

Legendary CIA Director William Colby: Torture is ineffective
[youtube]DkanFveaCn0[/youtube]

Ex-FBI Interrogator: Torture "Ineffective"
A former FBI man who interrogated an al Qaeda leader said Wednesday extreme techniques used by the Bush administration were "ineffective, slow and unreliable" and caused the prisoner to stop talking.

Ali Soufan, testifying to a Senate panel behind a screen to hide his identity, said that his interrogation team obtained a "treasure trove" of information from Abu Zubaydah using a non-threatening approach that outwitted the detainee - even getting him to talk by using his childhood nickname.

Soufan said his team had to step aside when CIA contractors took over, using simulated drowning, sleep deprivation and other harsh methods. He said those techniques caused the prisoner to "shut down."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/ ... 1381.shtml

http://www.observer.com/2009/torture-in ... principled