[Emerald Ocean]

To me it doesn't matter what Trayvon did. Zimmerman could have avoided the incident if he just obeyed the instructions given to him. Instead, he confronted Trayvon, which set the events in motion.

Yea, it is all Zimm's fault that the "suspicious black male" started pummeling his head on the concrete... Statistically speaking, there is a very good chance that Trayvonne either recently committed a crime or was preparing to do so.

[grassroots1]

He was suspicious because Zimmerman thought he was suspicious, and the statistics you're citing are based on his race (and maybe age?). So both of your statements are engaging in the same logic that led Zimmy to pursue Martin against police advice and finally kill him.

[The Captain]

Yea, it is all Zimm's fault that the "suspicious black male" started pummeling his head on the concrete... Statistically speaking, there is a very good chance that Trayvonne either recently committed a crime or was preparing to do so.

From the biased point of view of people like Zimmerman, all black male are suspicious.

And bring out statistics to prove that somebody might be prepared to do something is just crud, statistics never prove what a single individual may be likely to do.

Following you logic I could say something like:

Statistically speaking, because you're man, there is a very good chance that you either recently brutalized or raped a woman or that you might be preparing to do so.

[Emerald Ocean]

From the biased point of view of people like Zimmerman, all black male are suspicious.

All the burglaries in that neighborhood were committed by black African males. Facts don't lie.

And bring out statistics to prove that somebody might be prepared to do something is just crud, statistics never prove what a single individual may be likely to do.

He fit the physical description of every one of the burglars who had been caught and/or witnessed in the area.

Following you logic I could say something like:

Statistically speaking, because you're man, there is a very good chance that you either recently brutalized or raped a woman or that you might be preparing to do so.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

[The Captain]

All the burglaries in that neighborhood were committed by black African males. Facts don't lie.

African, do you mean that they made the journey from Africa for the sole purpose of committing a burglary? Ahah Ok I know that's not what you meant to say, I apologize.

The important question here is : Where did these burglars come from? If there's a poor black neighborhood right next to this one, well no surprise the burglaries were committed by black people. People who have no money and no job commit burglaries that's not a newsflash.

Besides,

Was Zimmerman living in a fairly middle-class neighborhood? Well, again no surprise that white people did not commit any burglaries, they are not the ones who are broke !!

You are comparing apples to oranges.

No because FACTS DON'T LIE as you say, all rapes and violence toward women are committed by men.

I'm just using the same one way logic that you use to explain that only black people commit crimes.

[The Immortal Goon]

Jesus, how can right-wingers look at themselves in the mirror? They're such pathetic cry-babies.


"WAAA! My guy got a scratch on his head while murdering a man because he was black! WAAA!"

I should hope that if someone tried to kill me I'd fight back. What would one of these racist tools do if Zimmerman got out of a truck and confronted him, armed, at point-blank range? My guess, since they're crying about a scratch on someone's head, is they'd fall to their knees and begin to really cry.

Grow some testicles.

[Grognonours]

"WAAA! My guy got a scratch on his head while murdering a man because he was black! WAAA!"

So now an hispanic and registered Democrat is soe right winger's man? The fact is that Zimmerman had every right to ask Trayvon what he was doing. As soon as Trayvon attacked him, it was self defense.

[The Immortal Goon]

So now an hispanic and registered Democrat is soe right winger's man?

Seems to be the case since that's what they're pouting about this week.

The fact is that Zimmerman had every right to ask Trayvon what he was doing.

This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

1. Martin was not, "up to no good," he was visiting his father's fiancé in the neighborhood.
2. He was not on drugs.
3. He wasn't simply "walking about" he had gone to the store to buy Skittles.

All of the reasons Zimmerman had for asking, were completely made up. I guess you could cite a freedom of speech issue, but that's moot anyway as Zimmerman was specifically instructed not to engage Martin.

As soon as Trayvon attacked him, it was self defense.

It's not as simple as that as we don't know that Martin attacked Zimmerman. We know for sure that Zimmerman pursued Martin after being told not to do so. While Zimmerman said he stopped, Martin's girlfriend, with whom he was on the phone, reported that he said a "creepy" guy was following him and that he was trying to lose him. The phone records, the time, and the action is all consistent with Zimmerman's call.

Witness reports vary as to what happened next.

The bottom line is that Zimmerman had no reason to follow him, was told not to, and if you say that Zimmerman had a right to confront someone he thought was creepy, then certainly Martin had the right to confront a creepy person with a gun attempting to track him down after Johnny Law told him to stand down.

[Grognonours]

1. Martin was not, "up to no good," he was visiting his father's fiancé in the neighborhood.
2. He was not on drugs.
3. He wasn't simply "walking about" he had gone to the store to buy Skittles.

#1 - so what?
#2 - he had THC in his system
#3 - so what?

You're grasping at straws that just aren't there. Zimmerman had every right to ask him what he was doing. And since it appears Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman had a right to self defense.

Seems to be the case since that's what they're pouting about this week.

I usually hope for more maturity from this forum and once again I find disappointment.

[The Immortal Goon]

So what?

It's always funny to me when someone gives a reason why he thinks something, that reason is shown to be false, and then said reason actually never mattered in the first place.

You're grasping at straws that just aren't there. Zimmerman had every right to ask him what he was doing. And since it appears Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman had a right to self defense.

The THC in his system, so the autopsy said, was from days ago.

Look, this is what we know: Zimmerman was pursuing Martin. Both phone calls reflect this. Zimmerman was told not to do so, and Martin was hiding from Zimmerman. Zimmerman asked the dispatcher to have the cops call him, which certainly means he intended to remain mobile, I can think of no other reason that to track Martin down.

If some guy were chasing me down for no reason at all, searching for me, and then getting all in my face (Martins call allegedly has the Zimmerman approaching Martin yelling) I may have decked the crazy fucker too. This whole thing would have been avoided if Zimmerman had listened to the authorities or not been intent on playing vigilante in the first place.

It seems to me that the argument comes down to who had the right to stand his ground. I would say the guy being hunted like prey by some nut with a gun had a right to defend himself.

The people saying Zimmerman did, in my mind, are saying you can provoke a situation where someone feels the need to defend himself, then murder the fucker for feeling the need to defending himself.

Honestly ask yourself: if you were being pursued by Martin for no reason, to the point that you felt that you needed to hide from him while he's chasing you down and swearing at you, and then he found you - what would you do? Would he have the right to murder you if you resisted?

I usually hope for more maturity from this forum

Yes, yes, there's nothing a right-winger wants to be more than someone's victim.

[Emerald Ocean]

Look, this is what we know: Zimmerman was pursuing Martin.

Not illegal.

Zimmerman was told not to do so, and Martin was hiding from Zimmerman.

Not illegal.

Zimmerman asked the dispatcher to have the cops call him, which certainly means he intended to remain mobile, I can think of no other reason that to track Martin down.

Also not illegal.

If some guy were chasing me down for no reason at all, searching for me, and then getting all in my face (Martins call allegedly has the Zimmerman approaching Martin yelling) I may have decked the crazy fucker too.

Definitely illegal.

It seems to me that the argument comes down to who had the right to stand his ground. I would say the guy being hunted like prey by some nut with a gun had a right to defend himself.

No, he wins the Darwin Award for attacking a man with a gun.


If you crazed liberals want to live in a society where people aren't allowed to carry guns for self defense, move to the South Side of Chicago, Washington DC, or some other socialist hellhole where you become prey.

Mind you, 9-out-of-10 black-white violent crimes involve a black perpetrator and a white victim!!!

[The Immortal Goon]

No, he wins the Darwin Award for attacking a man with a gun.

Okay, and if Martin had a gun and was pursing you through a neighborhood while you were trying to get away, and he finally found you, would you get into a prone position and do your best to act like a victim, like right-wingers seem to love to do?

If you crazed liberals

I am not a liberal.

[Emerald Ocean]

Okay, and if Martin had a gun and was pursing you through a neighborhood while you were trying to get away, and he finally found you, would you get into a prone position and do your best to act like a victim, like right-wingers seem to love to do?

First, I wouldn't attack any armed person pursuing me. Everything indicates Trayvonne initiated physical contact with the armed Zimmerman, hence the Darwin Award recommendation.

I know Trayvonne is a martyr for your side, I just don't understand how one could be so stupid as to attack an armed pursuer. As is so often the case, young kids like Zimmerman often make poor decisions at that age.

[The Immortal Goon]

First, I wouldn't attack any armed person pursuing me. Everything indicates Trayvonne initiated physical contact with the armed Zimmerman, hence the Darwin Award recommendation.

Zimmemans claim supports this, but not his phone call, Martins phone call, or the witnesses.

Martin wasn't on my side. I just like facts

[Emerald Ocean]

Zimmemans claim supports this, but not [sic] the witnesses.

The only witness I know about saw Trayvonne on top of George.

The guy on the bottom (Zimmerman in Red) was yelling "help, help"...



[youtube]iuPmu8UUbpQ[/youtube]

[The Immortal Goon]

The prosecution has plenty of witnesses that have been publicly released. The witness you provided does nothing to dissuade credibility in all the logged evidence that Martin was an innocent man that was running away from and hiding from some bozo with a gun that had been told by the authorities to stop, but continued on anyway. When he finally hunted down an innocent guy and started screaming at him and putting his hands on him (according to the Martin call before it dropped) we have conflicting versions of what happened next- none of which dispute the fact Zimmerman should have just let an innocent man walk home, or have let the police deal with it, or shouldn't have tracked Martin, or shouldn't have confronted him, nor should he have tried to get physical.

It's fail from start to finish.

I know your ideology demands you cower in fear and try your best to become a victim when confronted with a black man-the better to go dramatically crying to everyone for attention about how special you are-but this case is a loser. Surely you can find some other sort of random crime to rally around and try to make everyone feel sorry for your sniffling about.

[Emerald Ocean]

The prosecution has plenty of witnesses that have been publicly released. The witness you provided does nothing to dissuade credibility in all the logged evidence that Martin was an innocent man that was running away from and hiding from some bozo with a gun that had been told by the authorities to stop, but continued on anyway. When he finally hunted down an innocent guy and started screaming at him and putting his hands on him (according to the Martin call before it dropped) we have conflicting versions of what happened next- none of which dispute the fact Zimmerman should have just let an innocent man walk home, or have let the police deal with it, or shouldn't have tracked Martin, or shouldn't have confronted him, nor should he have tried to get physical.

It's fail from start to finish.

I know your ideology demands you cower in fear and try your best to become a victim when confronted with a black man-the better to go dramatically crying to everyone for attention about how special you are-but this case is a loser. Surely you can find some other sort of random crime to rally around and try to make everyone feel sorry for your sniffling about.

The real "dope" on Trayvonne's drug use



This just keeps getting worse for your hero Trayvonne - turns out he may have been under the influence of DXM or "lean" as he called it. Purple Drank is a popular concoction of prescription-strength cough syrup containing codeine, promethazine and flavored drinks, and is widely abused in the Afro-American community.

Perhaps more importantly, unlike marijuana and many other drugs of abuse, DXM does not cause sedation, and in fact can produce profound agitation hence the comparison to PCP. In the “DXM Basics – Problems” section, Erowid notes:

“…DXM causes physical and psychological effects that may be frightening or unpleasant… Psychological effects can include profound disorientation, depression, a feeling of personal disintegration, or a feeling of “unreality” and disconnection that may persist for days. Chronic use may cause depression, psychological dependency, and possibly brain damage. Large doses may be associated with psychotic breaks…”

Unless you think it's "OK" to go around beating up Neighborhood Watchmen, private security and/or police who briefly follow you, I'd say Trayvon was showing psychotic behavior associated with hard drug abuse. Remember, he punched his school bus driver (also read about it here) for no reason!!!

[The Immortal Goon]

First, this has nothing to do with any argument that has been made at all. Second, despite what a conservative blog nobody ever heard of says, the actual report:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/image ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Says otherwise.

Thirdly, even if he had been under a cocktail, it is not a capital offense.

Fourthly, you get a trial before being convicted of a capital crime.

Fifth, you get the right to appeal.

Sixth, some dude in a car doesn't act as a judge

Seventh, they don't dont send some random guy to hunt you and execute you when it's done.

Aside from those things, you make a really persuasive argument for something that nobody was arguing with you about.

[Emerald Ocean]

First, this has nothing to do with any argument that has been made at all. Second, despite what a conservative blog nobody ever heard of says, the actual report:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/image ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Says otherwise.

Thirdly, even if he had been under a cocktail, it is not a capital offense.

Fourthly, you get a trial before being convicted of a capital crime.

Fifth, you get the right to appeal.

Sixth, some dude in a car doesn't act as a judge

Seventh, they don't dont send some random guy to hunt you and execute you when it's done.

Aside from those things, you make a really persuasive argument for something that nobody was arguing with you about.

I'm just painting the picture of a violent youth who had dabbled in drugs, stolen property, and who may have been high as a kite the night he was shot.

MDX (Trayvonnes' drug of choice that night) can have the effect of PCP, which makes people violent and gives them amazing strength.


Look, here is the evidence:


[/img]

[The Immortal Goon]

Well nothing's stopping you from writing something counter to evidence with no legitimate citations or sources. In the real world we call that fiction.

I fully admit to not knowing what is not knowable in the case. The difference is that I make informed inferences from the available data. You make up whatever you can to support a side you chose on day one so people with your ideology could play pretty princess and hope that everyone sees how unfair mommy is being.