[Baff]

.

There is a time and a place for guns and outside of that they should be kept stored away from temptations excitable little fingers.

that is a great wishful thinking and the absolute means for the illegals to have no fear of any resistance possible.

Stupid argument.
Where I live there are no illegals.

Because legal guns are stored properly, they don't get stolen.

I think the last big police haul of a gangs guns was 2 flare pistols and a flintlock with no ammunition for any of them.
It's almost unheard of for criminals to have guns here.

The gun crime story in my daily newspaper today was that a guy tries to rob a bookies office with a fake gun, but because it was April Fools Day, everyone there just laughed at him.

If you have proper gun control, sod all illegals have guns. You only get a deluge of illegal guns in countries where legal guns are left lying around the place all the time. Where it is easy to get them illegally in the first place.

So here, criminals don't have guns .Only legally allowed people do. Which is the way I like it.

[onemalehuman]

Stupid argument.
Where I live there are no illegals.

Because legal guns are stored properly, they don't get stolen.

I think the last big police haul of a gangs guns was 2 flare pistols and a flintlock with no ammunition for any of them.
It's almost unheard of for criminals to have guns here.

The gun crime story in my daily newspaper today was that a guy tries to rob a bookies office with a fake gun, but because it was April Fools Day, everyone there just laughed at him.

If you have proper gun control, sod all illegals have guns. You only get a deluge of illegal guns in countries where legal guns are left lying around the place all the time. Where it is easy to get them illegally in the first place.

So here, criminals don't have guns .Only legally allowed people do. Which is the way I like it.

Spoken like a legal gun owner. Over confident.

Is that illegal guns, illegal immigrants, illegal acts with weapons besides firearms? Gee Newpapers tell everything leaderships want the public to recite. Kind of like tv news, cable news, talk radio, entertainment tv, movies.
Everything is centered on saving humanity at the sacrific of understanding what being human actually is.

Pride(civic symbolic) comes before the downfall of the ideology that didn't match natural balance.

[Rainbow Crow]

KlassWar usually reminds me of an African dictator, but I agree with him that open carry is good and concealed carry is bad. I respect the right to bear arms but when you sneak them around in your pants its just begging for something bad to happen.

[Kman]

KlassWar usually reminds me of an African dictator, but I agree with him that open carry is good and concealed carry is bad. I respect the right to bear arms but when you sneak them around in your pants its just begging for something bad to happen.

Why handicap the good guys by forcing them to open carry? You want the criminal to be unsure of who is actually carrying a piece, it is not like the criminals are gonna play by the rules anyway so you just make it harder for honest and good citizens to defend themselves.

[Rainbow Crow]

Why handicap the good guys by forcing them to open carry? You want the criminal to be unsure of who is actually carrying a piece, it is not like the criminals are gonna play by the rules anyway so you just make it harder for honest and good citizens to defend themselves.

In my opinion this argument is bunk because there just aren't very many gun battles between law-abiding citizens and criminals. If concealed carry is illegal, a cop can pat someone down and find a concealed weapon, then arrest them before they get into a situation where there could be a gun battle. As someone who worked in the public defender's office, let me tell you that the latter situation is far more common than open gun battles, probably a hundred times more common.

Leaving dealing with criminals who carry concealed guns to the cops, son.

[Pants-of-dog]

I guess Kman supports the right of angry men to shoot their ex-wives, because Kman believes the original assailant should have been allowed to carry a concealed gun. If he had been allowed, he could have shot her and then run. He would be alive today.

[KlassWar]

You don't want to carry a gun openly if you're up to no good. You'll want to conceal that shit, so that folks who eyeball you don't associate you with the gun used in the crime (after all, folks who know guns could ID yours). An open carrier is almost certainly packn' heat for self-defense.

If gun owners are few, carrying openly could put a bullseye on them. If gun owners are aplenty, open carry would deter violent crime (more than concealed carry). No knucklehead's gonna rob no place that's got several dudes packing. He may risk it if he don't know they're packin', but if he sees it he's not going to raise the gun.

An universally armed population would also be extremely hard to police, which is a good thing.

[Kman]

If concealed carry is illegal, a cop can pat someone down and find a concealed weapon, then arrest them before they get into a situation where there could be a gun battle. As someone who worked in the public defender's office, let me tell you that the latter situation is far more common than open gun battles, probably a hundred times more common.

That is just a method for police to harass gangsters, it doesnt actually stop the violence since that would require permanent surveillance of these people. If a criminal wants to do a drive by or rob a liquor store then he will be able to do it regardless of whether concealed carry is allowed since he can just pick up a black market weapon and then go do what he wants.

Edit: or he can open carry until he reaches the vicinity of the store/house in question and then hide his weapon.

I guess Kman supports the right of angry men to shoot their ex-wives, because Kman believes the original assailant should have been allowed to carry a concealed gun. If he had been allowed, he could have shot her and then run. He would be alive today.

Wtf does this situation have to do with concealed carry laws? If he was allowed to own a weapon and open carry he could easily have open carried until reaching the supermarket then hid his weapon. If he was not allowed to own a weapon he could have bought a weapon on the black market most likely and then hid his gun when entering the supermarket, the chance of the police picking him up during the period where he buys his gun (or transports a gun hidden in his house) is minimal.

[Rainbow Crow]

It does stop violence because if they're breaking the law with concealed carry they go to jail, where they can't commit any crimes. If they've already got a record it can land them in jail for a very long time. Why wouldn't you want the police to harass gangsters?

[Drlee]

I live in Arizona where I can carry a concealed firearm anytime I like.. I do not do it very often. Almost never. Previously we had a law that required anyone wanting to carry concealed to attend a 16 hour class on the self defense laws (including demonstrating their ability to hit their target) which seemed at least somewhat responsible. Now any person who can own one can carry it concealed. That is foolish. However I must admit that we have had little problem with the law so far. For whatever that is worth.

I have a theory. It is that if I do not have a gun I am unlikely to get into a gun fight.

[Baff]

I have the same theory.

Spoken like a legal gun owner. Over confident.
.

Spoken like a true foreigner. Unable to compute that other societies are not the same as his own.

[SecretSquirrel]

I must disagree. Concealed carry (AS OPPOSED TO OPEN CARRY) should not be universal or easy to attain. Concealed carry (AS OPPOSED TO OPEN CARRY) does not deter crime. Concealed carry (AS OPPOSED TO OPEN CARRY) is very likely to escalate a violent situation: You get mugged and pull concealed a gun, the mugger might panic and murder you or start a gunfight, instead of (a) seeing your OPENLY CARRIED GUN and deciding to rob someone else or (b) taking your money from you if you are unarmed, and leaving you alive and unharmed.

My belief has been rock steady for years now that all people should be allowed to legally OPEN CARRY loaded firearms without a permit required, as the default. I do not like concealed carry; it has the stench of dishonesty and subterfuge about it and it doesn't seem to serve any purpose that open carry doesn't already fill. My ideal choice of place to live would allow universal open carry but disallow concealed carry for anyone

[Arkady2009]

[youtube]soZT__WQKsM[/youtube]

1 less scumbag polluting the gene pool.

For every good person with a gun, I can show you one lunatic with a gun who shot and killed innocent people. Your post is not an argument for concealed carry.

[Kman]

I must disagree. Concealed carry (AS OPPOSED TO OPEN CARRY) should not be universal or easy to attain. Concealed carry (AS OPPOSED TO OPEN CARRY) does not deter crime. Concealed carry (AS OPPOSED TO OPEN CARRY) is very likely to escalate a violent situation: You get mugged and pull concealed a gun, the mugger might panic and murder you or start a gunfight, instead of (a) seeing your OPENLY CARRIED GUN and deciding to rob someone else

But I want the criminals to try and rob people who are armed instead of unarmed people, carrying a gun is uncomfortable and many cant be bothered to do it, I want the criminals to be unsure of who is the dangerous victim and who is not. I know if I was a criminal I would feel a lot more scared about doing robberies in a town where I dont know who is armed and who is not, if you force open carry then it is like putting a large flag on the victims ''DEAR CRIMINAL, AVOID THIS PERSON TO AVOID HARM, This person over here is a safe victim though so go ahead''.

For every good person with a gun, I can show you one lunatic with a gun who shot and killed innocent people. Your post is not an argument for concealed carry.

Why do you want innocent people to die? If concealed carry had been legal and widespread in Norway then the Breivik massacre would have been stopped much sooner.

[Baff]

Because children would all be carrying concealed guns?

I'm not buying into that one.

[Kman]

Because children would all be carrying concealed guns?

I'm not buying into that one.

It wasnt only children on that island.

There were about 600 people, mostly aged between 14 and 25, on the wooded island, just over a quarter of a mile long, for the annual summer camp of Norway's Labour party youth wing.

I am sure there were tons of people over the age of 18 and if just a few of them had a concealed carry gun on them then they could have shot and killed Breivik before he shot all those innocent people.

[KlassWar]

Why do you want innocent people to die? If concealed carry had been legal and widespread in Norway then the Breivik massacre would have been stopped much sooner.

That's bullshit.

Let's imagine Norway had permissive gun laws. Its violent crime rates are too low for most people to bother carrying even if they could.

Breivik committed his killing spree at a political rally: Even in countries like Finland with permissive gun laws, Euros don't pack heat at political rallies.

I'm as pro-gun as it comes (because I believe the masses must be armed to defend their interests), but this argument of yours is bullshit: The massacre woulda happened anyway.

[Kman]

Let's imagine Norway had permissive gun laws. Its violent crime rates are too low for most people to bother carrying even if they could.

That is simply not true, I would concealed carry most of the time if it was allowed in Denmark simply because I have already been in a few dangerous incidents with thugs and I want to be able to defend myself.

Breivik committed his killing spree at a political rally: Even in countries like Finland with permissive gun laws, Euros don't pack heat at political rallies.

I suggest you read the laws about guns in Finland before you say things about it that are patently untrue:

Aside from law enforcement agents and military personnel, only security guards with closely defined working conditions, special training and a permit are allowed to carry a loaded gun in public places. The ownership of air-rifles is not regulated but carrying or firing them in public places is not permitted.

[KlassWar]

I guess the Finns caved to the European Bourgeoisie's aim to disarm the public lately . Six years ago, their gun laws were quite permissive.

[Kman]

I am sure government laws are not the only thing that matters either, even if concealed carry is legal in your country you will most likely not bring your gun to a rally if people get hysterical about it, knowing your average scandinavians phobia against guns I think it is likely that people at finnish rallies 6 years ago would freak out if they saw me for example carrying a piece at their rally.