[Verv]

Have you noticed the heightened anti-Police rhetoric coming from both the Libertarians and the Left? It is as if the police are under constant assault by the 'mah rights' crowd and the 'that's rayyyyycisssss' crowd, with no letting up.

There's a whole cult that now believes in documenting every action they see a Police officer take, and believes that it is their right to start a scene and act a fool when being ticketed or talked to by the Police. Then there's the group of Leftists who take a softer stance but generally back them up with endless dialog about institutionalized racism and all manner of power/authority dynamics.

I've personally embraced two principles to keep me from getting my ass kicked by a cop, and they've come in handy the 3 times I've had officious interactions with the Police:
(1) Do not lie like a pathetic child.
(2) Cooperate with them.

I've found that being able to be honest and cooperative, and to behave in a rational and a controlled way, has made every experience bearable. Not pleasant, heed you, because when you do something wrong or suspect and are stopped for it one shouldn't expect a pleasant experience, but they have all been entirely tolerable.

I feel incredibly apathetic towards people who argue with Police, and I nearly LOL every time I see a complete video where a dude is mouthing off or resisting the cops and gets smacked. I do not feel this is particularly crude as I sometimes LOL at fight videos between two civilians.

I think there is a measured, conscientious war being endorsed by the media and elites upon the Police, the purpose:

(a) Decrease trust in the local authorities to justify further interference and expansion by do-gooder Washington organizations and politicians, increasing federal power and oversight over local affairs.
(b) Prop up continued concepts of multiculturalism by implying Police are violent, incompetent and racist, and we cannot even trust crime statistics or facts which prove the failures of liberal social policy & the general spirit of multiculturalism. This serves as a great criticism to the general Conservative stance of Family Values.

By saying that Police fail the inner city, they mean to say that multiculturalism works, and that Family Values arguments are irrelevant, because obviously, one of the great points brought up by black activists like Tommy Sotomayor and others is that there needs to be more black fatherhood to fix criminality in the ghetto as opposed to more hand-outs and 'diversity training.'

The Libertarians & liberals that shill for these causes are the useful idiots.

Thoughts?

[Godstud]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I encounter the police on a regular basis, in a foreign country where I am not well-versed in their language. I am courteous, polite, I respond positively to their requests, and I never have problems.

This is a classic PSR(mostly correct, too)

[youtube]uj0mtxXEGE8[/youtube]

[Verv]

I see this has been moved but I think that it has been moved to an overly low-traffic area of the forum, where it won't see as much light, and I find that disappointing.

[Godstud]

I wouldn't worry about that, Verv. I always search based on New Posts and then my posts. People will find it.

[anarchist23]

This thread is going to be popular. It is about time there is a spotlight on police behaviour. I have seen some shocking police behaviour.

[Godstud]

Yes, some police forces are over-doing it(yes there is always some shocking crap), but the vast majority of police do so without military grade weapons, and without problems. People being antagonistic to police makes this sort of thing more common, as does the criminal element in the US that is extremely well armed.

Just this sort of stuff you post, is part of the problem, anarchist23. Most police do NOT go into their jobs thinking they are running/part of a police state. If Americans see police as an enemy, then they will become an enemy(self-fulfilling prophecies being what they are).

[OllytheBrit]

I don't see the Brit police as 'the enemy'. I see them as bloody stupid. Indeed I wouldn't bother to call them even in dire circumstances, that's how little faith I have in them.

[anarchist23]

I saw this woman beaten with a baton around the head cause the cop had his hat knocked off at a Kill the Criminal Justice Act march in 1994.

[Godstud]

So all police are bad because of one idiot cop 20 years ago?

People are quick to forget that police are human beings, who are as prone to anger, and irrationality, as the rest of us.

Treating a police officer with respect, and courtesy will keep you from getting a baton to the head. That woman(assaulting a police officer), showing absolute disrespect and rudeness to that police officer, had it coming. If you poke the bear, don't be surprised if it bites you.

Police Save Woman From Oncoming Train
Officers Scale Barbed-Wire Fence, Pull Woman Off Tracks in Bronx
http://online.wsj.com/articles/police-s ... 1413169961

Dramatic video shows New York City police officer save choking victim on highway
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/20/dr ... victim-on/

Police officer to attend wedding of woman, 20, he saved from choking when she was a baby
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dding.html

This sort of thing happens, too:
[youtube]l4h_2vBVwUA[/youtube]

For every BAD cop thing you post, anarchist23, I can post 20 GOOD things they do.

[OllytheBrit]

So all police are bad because of one idiot cop 20 years ago?

People are quick to forget that police are human beings, who are as prone to anger, and irrationality, as the rest of us.

Treating a police officer with respect, and courtesy will keep you from getting a baton to the head. That woman(assaulting a police officer), showing absolute disrespect and rudeness to that police officer, had it coming. If you poke the bear, don't be surprised if it bites you.

To deserve respect they have to earn it.

[Godstud]

Most police officers have earned our respect, Olly. I think it's up to some of them to do something to take away that respect, before we act like animals towards them.

Do you treat your doctor poorly before he helps you, or do you only treat him poorly when he fucks things up? I think police deserve the benefit of the doubt, as well. Treat them with respect and you probably won't have to get a crack on the noggin with a baton.

[anarchist23]

We have some high profile deaths caused by police brutality in London in the last few years. The majority are just doing a job. But we have a significant minority in the police force who enjoy battering/ shooting both men and women.

In the USA

[Godstud]

How many of those people killed were armed, anarchist23? How many were entirely justified? Show me THOSE statistics.

[OllytheBrit]

Most police officers have earned our respect, Olly. I think it's up to some of them to do something to take away that respect, before we act like animals towards them.

Do you treat your doctor poorly before he helps you, or do you only treat him poorly when he fucks things up? I think police deserve the benefit of the doubt, as well. Treat them with respect and you probably won't have to get a crack on the noggin with a baton.

I'm referring to the Brit police mate, and their stupidity has to be seen to be believed. And that isn't just the lower ranks - their bosses are even more stupid! I put it down to them watching too many tv cop shows, where it's all about machismo, and the 'guv'nor' mentality. I honestly wouldn't waste the cost of a phone call.

[anarchist23]

Well it seems some people think the police can do no wrong. They think that they are above the law. But many are basically criminals in Police uniforms.


This is from the Guardian of a couple of years ago.

The Guardian obtained this footage of Ian Tomlinson at a G20 protest in London, shortly before he died. It shows Tomlinson, who was not part of the demonstration, being assaulted from behind and pushed to the ground by baton-wielding police Link to video: Video of police attack on Ian Tomlinson
Dramatic footage obtained by the Guardian shows that the man who died at last week's G20 protests in London was attacked from behind and thrown to the ground by a baton–wielding police officer in riot gear.

Moments after the assault on Ian Tomlinson was captured on video, he suffered a heart attack and died.

The Guardian has handed a dossier of evidence to the police complaints watchdog.

It sheds new light on the events surrounding the death of the 47-year-old newspaper seller, who had been on his way home from work when he was confronted by lines of riot police near the Bank of England.

The submission to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) includes a collection of testimonies from witnesses, along with the video footage, shot at around 7.20pm, which shows Tomlinson at Royal Exchange Passage.

The film reveals that as he walks, with his hands in his pockets, he does not speak to the police or offer any resistance.

A phalanx of officers, some with dogs and some in riot gear, are close behind him and try to urge him forward.

A Metropolitan police officer appears to strike him with a baton, hitting him from behind on his upper thigh.

Moments later, the same policeman rushes forward and, using both hands, pushes Tomlinson in the back and sends him flying to the ground, where he remonstrates with police who stand back, leaving bystanders to help him to his feet.

The man who shot the footage, a fund manager from New York who was in London on business, said: "The primary reason for me coming forward is that it was clear the family were not getting any answers."

The Guardian's dossier also includes a sequence of photographs, taken by three different people, showing the aftermath of the attack, as well as witness statements from people in the area at the time.

A number of witnesses provided time and date-stamped photographs that substantiate their accounts.

Some said they saw police officers attack Tomlinson.

Witnesses said that, prior to the moment captured on video, he had already been hit with batons and thrown to the floor by police who blocked his route home.

One witness, Anna Branthwaite, a photographer, described how, in the minutes before the video was shot, she saw Tomlinson walking towards Cornhill Street.

"A riot police officer had already grabbed him and was pushing him," she said.

"It wasn't just pushing him – he'd rushed him. He went to the floor and he did actually roll. That was quite noticeable.

"It was the force of the impact. He bounced on the floor. It was a very forceful knocking down from behind. The officer hit him twice with a baton when he was lying on the floor.

"So it wasn't just that the officer had pushed him – it became an assault.

"And then the officer picked him up from the back, continued to walk or charge with him, and threw him.

"He was running and stumbling. He didn't turn and confront the officer or anything like that."

The witness accounts contradict the official version of events given by police.

In an official statement on the night of Tomlinson's death, the Metropolitan police made no reference to any contact with officers and simply described attempts by police medics and an ambulance crew to save his life after he collapsed – efforts they said were marred by protesters throwing missiles as first aid was administered .

The force said officers had created a cordon around Tomlinson to give him CPR.

"The officers took the decision to move him as during this time a number of missiles - believed to be bottles - were being thrown at them," it said.

Yesterday, the IPCC began managing an investigation by City of London police into the circumstances of Tomlinson's death after the Guardian published photographs of him on the ground and witness statements indicated he had been assaulted by police officers.

The IPCC commissioner for London, Deborah Glass, said: "Initially, we had accounts from independent witnesses who were on Cornhill, who told us that there had been no contact between the police and Mr Tomlinson when he collapsed."

"However, other witnesses who saw him in the Royal Exchange area have since told us that Mr Tomlinson did have contact with police officers.

"This would have been a few minutes before he collapsed. It is important that we are able to establish as far as possible whether that contact had anything to do with his death."

The IPCC added that Tomlinson was captured on CCTV walking onto Royal Exchange Passage.

"This is the aspect of the incident that the IPCC is now investigating," it said.

It was here the video was shot. A post mortem carried out by a Home Office pathologist last Friday revealed Tomlinson died of a heart attack.

Prior to seeing the dossier of evidence, Tomlinson's family said in a statement: "There were so many people around where Ian died, and so many people with cameras, that somebody must have seen what happened in the Royal Exchange passageway.

"We need to know what happened there and whether it had anything to do with Ian's death.

"We know that some people who were at the protest may not feel comfortable talking to the police.

"People are putting pictures on the internet, writing on blogs and talking to journalists. But we really need them to talk to the people who are investigating what happened."

[mikema63]

I see this has been moved but I think that it has been moved to an overly low-traffic area of the forum, where it won't see as much light, and I find that disappointing

Political circus is for threads that don't really fit into other sub-forums but are on topic. This clearly fits into this sub-forum. I also always search by new post as do many others so I don't think it will be an issue.

I think all police should wear a video recorder on their vests so that things like gun violence can be reviewed. They have a lot of power at taxpayer expense, they should have a high level of scrutiny.

[anarchist23]

The police have a giant stockpile of ammunition and been supplied with armoured personal carriers in the last couple of years. Why? They are expecting trouble and are getting tooled up for it

[mikema63]

The police have a giant stockpile of ammunition and been supplied with armoured personal carriers in the last couple of years. Why? They are expecting trouble and are getting tooled up for it

I think the reason is far more mundane, police offer a huge market to the military industrial complex to sell to. Combined with the drug war and the extra money thrown at the police post 9/11 for anti-terrorism you get this kind of militarization.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

Many law enforcement agencies have proven time and time again that they need to be closely scrutinised and monitored especially when taking into account the role they fulfil.

[Cartertonian]

As the son of a copper I have a personal view and can confirm that they are, in the main, decent, honest, normal people. The problem, I think, is the adversarial nature of the law itself. The police passionately believe they are protecting society and democracy through enforcement of the laws which that democratic society has adopted. Those who transgress those laws are seen, by default, as threatening to democratic society. That is to say, whilst one may be - notionally - 'innocent until proven guilty' in court, I fear we are very much seen as 'guilty until proven innocent' by most coppers. It's inevitable, really. They don't go out looking for people obeying the law; they go out looking for people breaking the law. Ergo, you're already a law-breaking scumbag before they even start.