Has the US prisoner, Otto Warmbier, been poisoned by the North Koreans? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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I'm going over the testimony video to try to figure out what happened here, but it seems clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that Warmbier- although its not clear yet why he was actaully in DPRK- was the victim of a political scandal. The DPRK state prosecutor laid out this case, which, I mean, believe what you will, still seems pretty incredible.

The DPRK prosecution's case is that Warmbier was an agent of this Methodist Church which is allegedly hugely influential in US politics and the Democratic party in particular. The prosecutions case, and Warmbier's confession, for what that is worth, confirms this, is that Warmbier's theft of the poster was practically orchestrated by Obama as part of a CIA backed project operationalized at the so-called "Z" society of the University of Virginia, of all places, to destabilize the DPRK. Pretty Star Chamber, Zinoviev show trial type stuff.




https://nextshark.com/otto-warmbier-nor ... z-society/
CULTUREHere’s the Idiotic Reason Otto Warmbier May Have Stolen That North Korean Poster
ByEditorial StaffPosted on March 22, 2016
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Otto Warmbier, the 21-year-old University of Virginia college student sentenced to 15 years of hard labor for stealing a North Korean propaganda poster from his hotel may have done it to try and impress a secret society at UVA.

Before his harsh sentencing for the crime of petty theft committed in the Yanggakdo International Hotel in Pyongyang, Warmbier, who is also a member of the Theta Chi fraternity, was made to confess his crimes before a panel.



His bizarre confession appears almost theatrical — either to play the part of a cooperative puppet prisoner before North Korean officials, because he was under severe duress, or both.

In it he included a rather odd explanation for his motives in stealing the propaganda banner in the first place — to impress the Z Society, a secret philanthropic society at UVA that has close ties to the CIA (according to Warmbier’s confession).

Here’s how Warmbier explained the motive of his “severe” crime to DPRK officials:

“I will now discuss the Z Society, and its encouragement of my crime.

The Z Society is the most secret organization at the UVA. All members and activities are strictly confidential. I first came to know of the Z Society in September 2013, when I first started at the university. I saw large Z crests painted on all the buildings of the compound. You can see them if you visit the University of Virginia… I was told that they’re from the Z Society, since the society donates millions of dollars to the university. The Z Society has around ten student members currently and after graduation they all go on to become very wealthy, with jobs in politics, business, and religion. Members of the Z Society include former US president Woodrow Wilson and a former head of the CIA. The stated objective of the Z Society is to spread freedom and eliminate tyranny. In order to become members, they must have good grades, and leadership, and most importantly, they must commit a brave act to help with the society’s stated objective. Once again, all members and activities are strictly confidential. It is, well, clear that the Z Society knew of my good grades and leadership. It is also clear that they knew that I would eagerly want to join the society in order to solve my family’s desperate financial problems. Because of this the Z Society expected me to commit a brave act to help eliminate tyranny. In order to prove my braveness to the Z Society I committed my crime in the DPR Korea with hopes of joining the Z Society. As you know from the Cold War era example, the CIA has always been leading anti-communism in every place in the world. There is no doubt that the CIA knows of the Z Society’s encouragement of my crime. Lastly, I want to clearly state that I was the political victim of the United States’ consistent hostile policy against the DPR Korea.”

z society

The Z Society describes itself as a philanthropic organization that was founded in 1892 at the University of Virginia which is comprised of outstanding and exemplary student leaders who uphold the ideals of the university while remaining anonymous.

However, a Z Society member distanced the organization from Warmbier, telling CNN:

“There’s just not even the semblance of a relationship between a group of undergrads who get together to eat hummus and write nice things about people, and the CIA.”



Of course, this revelation leaves more questions than answers such as how much an isolated totalitarian state actually knows about a secretive and philanthropic college organization or whether Warmbier used details of the Z Society in a confession given under duress.

There is however, another theory — Dr Leonid Petrov, a Korean Studies researcher at the Australian National University, believes Warmbier’s performance is all an act. Petrov told news.com.au:

“He’s acting, you can see if you watch the videos. One video after another show he’s obviously acting.

“(He) plays his theatrical role exclusively for the North Koreans to make them feel proud and powerful. He is a convenient hostage and will be rewarded for that. Welcome to a new form of A year in Korea: Self-imposed field work.

“He was in North Korea (twice before), he obviously knew the place. He went to a restricted area, an area a lot of people don’t know exists. He’s not naive, he’s not a victim. He is a victim in the eyes of Americans.

“He’s trying to portray that he’s not a sympathiser but he also wants as much access to the system as possible. A foreigner who knows too much is a threat to the system so he may not stay there long. They may trade him (for a North Korean prisoner in America) but sooner or later they will release him on some conditions.”

For whatever reason Warmbier took the poster and why he gave the bizarre performance for his confession, we won’t find out until he comes back — if he ever does.




http://gawker.com/is-this-american-bro- ... 1765365712
Is This American Bro Going to North Korean Prison Because He Tried to Impress a Glorified Frat?

162.90K

Sam Biddle
03/21/16 02:07PM
Filed to: SECRET SOCIETIES

Photo of the Z Society symbol, which UVA allows painted on its grounds, by Wikipedia user Horatius
University of Virginia undergrad Otto Warmbier has been sentenced to fifteen years in a North Korean labor camp after copping to an attempted heist of a DPRK propaganda poster. If this sounds like the kind of thing a college kid would try in order to look cool back at UVA, that’s because he says it was.



You can’t watch the video of Warmbier’s bizarre confession without coming to the conclusion that it was made at least in part under serious duress—he was in the custody of one of the planet’s most heavy-handedly oppressive governments, and presumably trying to avoid an even harsher sentence than the one he received. But beyond deeming himself a “severe criminal” for an attempt at petty theft, Warmbier included an odd detail: that he’d planned to snatch the poster at the behest of the “Z Society,” a secretive social club at UVA that dates back to 1892.

American College Student Sentenced to 15 Years Hard Labor in North Korea
Otto Warmbier, the 21-year-old University of Virginia student who was imprisoned in North Korea…
Here’s a brief excerpt from Warmbier’s “confession,” which in full lasted over half an hour:

I will now discuss the Z Society, and its encouragement of my crime.

The Z Society is the most secret organization at the UVA. All members and activities are strictly confidential. I first came to know of the Z Society in September 2013, when I first started at the university. I saw large Z crests painted on all the buildings of the compound. You can see them if you visit the University of Virginia... I was told that they’re from the Z Society, since the society donates millions of dollars to the university. The Z Society has around ten student members currently an after graduation they all go n to become very wealthy, with jobs in politics, business, and religion. Members of the Z Society include former US president Woodrow Wilson and a former head of the CIA. The stated objective of the Z Society is to spread freedom and eliminate tyranny. In order to become members, they must have good grades, and leadership, and most importantly, they must commit a brave act to help with the society’s stated objective. Once again, all members and activities are strictly confidential. It is, well, clear that the Z Society knew of my good grades and leadership. It is also clear that they knew that I would eagerly want to joint eh society in order to solve my family’s desperate financial problems. Because of this the Z Society expected me to commit a brave act to help eliminate tyranny. In order to prove my braveness to the Z Society I committed my crime in the DPR Korea with hopes of joining the Z Society. As you know from the Cold War era example, the CIA has always been leading anti-communism in every place in the world. There is no doubt that the CIA knows of the Z Society’s encouragement of my crime. Lastly, I want to clearly state that I was the political victim of the United States’ consistent hostile policy against the DPR Korea.
To be clear, literally everything Warmbier said before a North Korean kangaroo court should be considered suspect. His “confession” was likely coached, if not dictated to him verbatim by the court itself. But the Z Society element is bizarre. More than bizarre, really, it’s a completely inexplicable detail—how would the DPRK have a working knowledge of an extremely obscure, semi-secret, private social club based only on the campus of a Virginia university? Even most actual UVA students know little about the Z Society, to say nothing of government officials in a tiny, culturally isolated, xenophobic dictatorship on the other side of the planet. Anyone can lob an accusation of CIA collusion—the CIA are easily referenced bogeymen for any enemy of the U.S.—but an undergraduate secret society with only about a dozen members at a time?

The question, then, is this: Did the DPRK feed Warmbier the Z Society story for his staged confession, or did Warmbier bring it up on his own? The latter seems eminently possible. Daring an undergrad to steal a communist propaganda poster is absolutely the sort of thing that would happen at what’s basically a glorified co-ed frat—you can imagine how much someone would love to have that hanging on their college bedroom wall. That leads to another question: Did the Z Society actually put Warmbier up to it? A current “Z” reached by CNN denied the entire thing:

A member of the Z Society at UVA told CNN the organization sought to anonymously recognize students who contributed positively to the university. The source said the group had never had any contact with Warmbier and he’d never been approached to be a member.

The source also dismissed suggestions that the group had any affiliation with the CIA.

“There’s just not even the semblance of a relationship between a group of undergrads who get together to eat hummus and write nice things about people, and the CIA,” the Z Society member said.
Then again, of course they’d deny it. The raison d’etre of any secret society is secrecy—you don’t join one to have fun, you join one in order to be in on the secret and enjoy the lame thrill of excluding the rest of the world from whatever mundane shit you’re doing together.

What little information is public about the Z Society doesn’t flag it as the most obvious CIA cutout at the University of Virginia, were the DPRK just idly googling hypothetical co-conspirators for Warmbier. According to a blurb in UVA Magazine, the group’s ostensible goals are academic:

In addition to its philanthropic efforts, the Z Society hosts numerous honorary dinners and grants academic awards. The Edgar F. Shannon Awards are given to the “best” graduating students from each of the University’s schools. Those so honored have “pursued academic greatness with fervent ardor and keen insight while never forgetting the importance of those priorities aside from school.” An annual Distinguished Faculty Award is also given, based on student nominations.
A university admissions blog says the Z Society’s purpose is “honoring students and faculty who’ve actively contributed to UVa’s student life and diversity is their main objective.”

In 2015, the Society donated $30,000 to a university fund used for faculty hiring:

According to the letter, faculty are an essential part of student development — as effective self-governance cannot be achieved without a strong bond between students and faculty.

“The sentiment of student self-governance is too often flattened out to mean student leadership of flagship organizations, yet here, self-governance is best understood to mean the literal governance of the self — a journey of personal cultivation,” the letter said.
A lot of the group’s campus activities seem to be along the same lines of professorial ass-kissing and the handing out of various hokey awards for excellence. If you’re a North Korean trying to find the most obvious club to say induced an act of CIA-connected hotel vandalism, you’d probably go with the most clandestine club of them all, the “7 Society,” in which membership is only revealed upon death. That group also, notably, boasts among its alumni Frank Wisner, former head of the Office of Strategic Services (the CIA’s precursor) and later a top official at the CIA itself.

We may never find out exactly what happened in that Pyongyang hotel—or why—unless Warmbier tells us himself upon his eventual return to the United States. One thing we can count on is that the University of Virginia won’t try to get to the bottom of this: When I asked the school whether they would investigate Warmbier’s claims about the Z Society in any capacity, they would not answer, instead only praising the Z Society as a “philanthropic organization.”

A request for comment sent to a Z Society email address provided by the University of Virginia was not immediately returned.



http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/23/asia/otto ... index.html
North Korea: Otto Warmbier's death 'is a mystery to us'

By Joshua Berlinger and Joe Sterling, CNN
Updated 12:54 PM ET, Fri June 23, 2017
Anger over Otto Warmbier's death grows
Now Playing Anger over Otto...
Source: CNN

Anger over Otto Warmbier's death grows 02:31
Story highlights
North Korea dismisses allegations Otto Warmbier tortured while in captivity
Agent says Dennis Rodman's trip to North Korea was a factor in student's release
(CNN)Days after US student Otto Warmbier died, North Korean state media said his death was a "mystery" and dismissed accusations he was tortured during his 17 months in captivity in the country.

Doctors who examined Warmbier on his return to the United States last week said the University of Virginia student had incurred significant brain damage and was in a state of "unresponsive wakefulness." But it's unclear how he came to be in that state.
The North Koreans had told US officials that Warmbier slipped in a coma after contracting botulism and taking a sleeping pill.
The 22-year-old's family alleges he was tortured.
"Unfortunately, the awful, torturous mistreatment our son received at the hands of the North Koreans ensured that no other outcome was possible beyond the sad one we experienced today," Warmbier's parents said in announcing their son's death Monday.
At Otto Warmbier's funeral 2,500 celebrate kid who would've 'set the world on fire'
But the state-run Korean Central News Agency said Friday said that Warmbier was treated in accordance with domestic law. It rebuffed "groundless public opinion now circulating in the US that he died of torture and beating during his reform through labor."
"The fact that Warmbier died suddenly in less than a week just after his return to the US in his normal state of health indicators is a mystery to us as well," the agency reported.

Ex-detainee Kenneth Bae reacts to Warmbier's death 02:32
Sentenced to hard labor
Warmbier was detained at the Pyongyang airport in January 2016 after a short tour of North Korea.
Two months later, he was found guilty of committing "hostile acts" against the North Korean regime and sentenced to 15 years' hard labor in a trial that reportedly lasted about an hour.
Some of the evidence at trial was purported security footage of Warmbier removing a political banner from his hotel.
More than a year went by without public word of Warmbier before the State Department learned of his dire condition on June 6. He was released a week later.
President Donald Trump called the situation a "disgrace."
"He should have been brought home a long time ago," Trump said.
Warmbier died days after his return to the United States, and his funeral was held Thursday in his hometown of Wyoming, Ohio.
Kenneth Bae, an American who was jailed for nearly two years in North Korea, told CNN he believed Warmbier could have been tortured, and cautioned other Americans against going to North Korea.
Dennis Rodman's visit
Warmbier's release coincided with former basketball star Dennis Rodman's latest visit to North Korea, though US national security spokesman Michael Anton denied there was a connection between the two.
Fred Warmbier, the student's father, said the same thing Thursday: "Dennis Rodman had nothing to do with Otto."

Waiting for Dennis Rodman 01:19
But Rodman's agent told ABC News said he asked for Warmbier's release on behalf of the former athlete three times before the trip. The agent, Chris Volo, said he believes Rodman's trips to North Korea "had a lot to do" with Warmbier's release.
"I know being there had something to do with it," Volo said.
"When I was organizing the trip and I (met) with the delegates here, I addressed Otto Warmbier and I said to them we would need some type of good faith if we're ever going to do some type of future sports relations."
Volo said they hope to meet with the family but have been told "it just couldn't happen."
Rodman told ABC News he didn't know Warmbier was in a coma when he heard the news of his release.
"I was just so happy to see the kid released. Later that day, that's when we found out he was ill. No one knew that. I was just so happy. ... We jumped up and down. All right man, all right. Some good things came out of this trip."
Fred Warmbier has called on North Korea to release other American detainees.
"There's no excuse for the way the North Koreans treated our son. And no excuse for the way they've treated so many others," he said.
North Korea still holds Kim Sang Duk and Kim Hak-song, academics who worked at the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology, and a businessman named Kim Dong Chul.
Will Rodman and Volo lobby for those Americans' release? "If we could get more trips going over there, I think anything is possible," Volo said.
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