[Puffer Fish]

Father jailed for calling his daughter his daughter.
Or more specifically, the judge threatened to jail him if he called his daughter his daughter, and threatened him with jail if he told the media about the case. He went to the media and told them about the threat from the judge. The judge then had the father jailed in response.

On Tuesday, the father of a biological girl who believes she is a boy turned himself into a Canadian court and was subsequently taken to jail after the Attorney General of British Columbia issued an arrest warrant for contempt after the father had insisted on referring to his daughter as his "daughter" and used the pronouns "she" and "her".​

Robert Hoogland, from Surrey, British Columbia, has a 14-year-old daughter. In February 2019, the Supreme Court of British Columbia, Canada ordered that the girl receive testosterone injections without obtaining parental consent.

"The court also declared that if either of her parents referred to her using female pronouns or addressed her by her birth name, they would be considered guilty of family violence," The Federalist noted.​

Father Arrested, Jailed For Contempt After Referring To His Daughter As "She" Voicing Dissent In Interviews | The Daily Wire

Will the U.S. be far behind with this insanity? I don't think so. Thirty years ago when I was working our city drafted a new "Family Violence" ordinance. We learned that words like, "I'll leave and not support you any longer," were violence. I asked if the words, "I'll take the kids and you'll never see them again," was violence and the lawyers who drafted the ordinance laughed long and loud. Of course not.


He was threatened that he would be jailed for contempt of court for calling his daughter his daughter.
He was jailed for contempt for talking to the media. He wasn't allowed to talk to the media about the restrictions the judge had imposed on him and their family.


related story: mother threatened with jail if she did not sign consent for child to be circumcised (posted 19 Oct 2020 )

[Pants-of-dog]

"Contempt of court" is the only civil infraction that comes with a jail sentence.

It is the judge's tool.of last resort to ensure that the court runs as it should.

This man was jailed for contempt of court. The rest is details.

[Politics_Observer]

@Puffer Fish

In cases like these it makes me happy that I live in America. A Canadian friend told me healthcare is a mess in Canada because nobody can get life saving procedures in a timely manner, even if they are high on the priority list. This is why assisted suicide is a big thing in Canada.

A lot of the patients can't get life saving medical procedures in a timely manner so they opt for assisted suicide. Crazy and terrible. But I know our health system isn't perfect either. It's just that alot of people don't know the tradeoffs with Canada's healthcare system as opposed to ours here in the United States.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Puffer Fish

In cases like these it makes me happy that I live in America. A Canadian friend told me healthcare is a mess in Canada because nobody can get life saving procedures in a timely manner, even if they are high on the priority list. This is why assisted suicide is a big thing in Canada.

A lot of the patients can't get life saving medical procedures in a timely manner so they opt for assisted suicide. Crazy and terrible. But I know our health system isn't perfect either. It's just that alot of people don't know the tradeoffs with Canada's healthcare system as opposed to ours here in the United States.

None of this seems correct.

[Politics_Observer]

@Pants-of-dog

That's what he told me. I asked him what it was like in Canada and he said, "Well, it's not perfect...." and that's when he proceeded to tell me about the tradeoffs Canada has to make with their healthcare system and the problems of assisted suicide given people can't get the life saving procedures they need. I think he was telling the truth and he is an intelligent man.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Neo

Your friend was incorrect.

Because of the single payer public system, healthcare is free at point of service, which obviously removes obstacles for demand. This then logically means that resources must be rationed in some way other than price.

And this is done through wait lists.

And people who are in more dire need get moved up the list. So if you have a serious but not life threatening condition, the wait can be very long.

This is the price we pay for walking into any hospital or clinic and getting all the emergency treatment we need for free as soon as they can humanly deliver it.

So no, it is not correct that people with life threatening conditions have to wait. In fact, their treatment is why the rest of us wait for so long.

While assisted suicide is now becoming a thing in Canada, it is very unlikely that people are choosing assisted suicide because their free hip replacement surgery is taking longer than two years.

[Politics_Observer]

I have never lived in Canada so who am I to say. But I do know this: there is nothing in this world thats free and you will always pay one way or another and there is always tradeoffs to everything.

[Puffer Fish]

"Contempt of court" is the only civil infraction that comes with a jail sentence.
It is the judge's tool.of last resort to ensure that the court runs as it should.
This man was jailed for contempt of court. The rest is details.

That is disingenuous, and avoids the whole heart of what this issue was really about.

The judge told the father he could not refer to his daughter as his daughter or the judge would have him sent to prison.
The father found that so outrageous that he wanted the rest of the world to be informed about it, but the judge had threatened him with prison for that too.
And the father was sent to prison by the judge. Not because the father decided to defy the judge's order and refer to his daughter as his daughter, but because the father defied the judge's other order by telling the media about it, about the judge's threat.

It sounds like the father wanted the public to know that the judge was threatening him over something like this, and ended up being sent to prison for that.

[Pants-of-dog]

I have never lived in Canada so who am I to say. But I do know this: there is nothing in this world thats free and you will always pay one way or another and there is always tradeoffs to everything.

Yes. This is why I said it was free at the point of service. The money to pay for it generated through taxes.

That is disingenuous, and avoids the whole heart of what this issue was really about.

No.

The judge gave specific orders about how the trial was to be run.

Anyone who defies these orders can be held for contempt of court.

This person defied the orders.

….because the father defied the judge's other order by telling the media about it, about the judge's threat.

It sounds like the father wanted the public to know that the judge was threatening him over something like this, and ended up being sent to prison for that.

Yes, exactly.

The person defied the orders in this manner, which is why he was jailed.

Considering the fact that he made the judge a media target, he is lucky if he us only charged with contempt of court.

[Politics_Observer]

@Puffer Fish @Pants-of-dog

Canada's constitution doesn't have a 1st amendment as broad as we do here in the United States. An American court could not make such a ruling because it violate our first amendment given the way it is written in our constitution. If a court did, its ruling would probably be overturned on appeal.

[Pants-of-dog]

Gag orders from judges are pretty common on both sides of the border.

In cases involving children , such as this one, it is usually unchallenged and accepted since it is done to protect the identity of the child.

[Puffer Fish]

Yes, exactly.

The person defied the orders in this manner, which is why he was jailed.

Considering the fact that he made the judge a media target, he is lucky if he us only charged with contempt of court.

What a little Communist Fascist you seem to be.

You see it as perfectly reasonable that a judge was able to order and threaten the father over this, and then try to prevent the public from knowing about it.

I don't subscribe to your totalitarian politics. To me, and to most conservatives, this seems like a pretty clear cut case of judicial abuse. Wouldn't want to live in a society where this is seen as normal.

[Puffer Fish]

I know many on the Left seem to have trouble understanding principles, but maybe this hypothetical might help you understand.

Imagine there's a judge who orders a woman not to get an abortion. He threatens to throw her in jail if she does. (Even though getting the abortion would not be clearly illegal) He also orders that she cannot tell the media about it, and if she does she will be held in contempt and also thrown in jail.
Would you see that as acceptable? I didn't think so.

[Pants-of-dog]

What a little Communist Fascist you seem to be.

I have no idea why I, a communist and a Marxist and a radical who does not even support the existing legal paradigm, know far more about the legal paradigm that we call liberal capitalist democracy than the people who ostensibly support it.

Are you not aware or clear on what “contempt of court” is?

You see it as perfectly reasonable that a judge was able to order and threaten the father over this, and then try to prevent the public from knowing about it.

No. My opinion is irrelevant.

Case law in the common law system dictates that judges have the right and duty to attach gag orders to cases when privacy is an issue, such as cases involving children.

This was decided without me or anyone else other than capitalist judges.

I don't subscribe to your totalitarian politics. To me, and to most conservatives, this seems like a pretty clear cut case of judicial abuse. Wouldn't want to live in a society where this is seen as normal.

You already do, You just do not know how contempt of court works, or how gag orders work.

Because of this man’s actions, there is now a possibility that a person can track down the identity and whereabouts of the judge, the mom, and/or the kid and attack one or more of them as a way of supporting this fellow.

[B0ycey]

The worse part of the case, 14 year old is being put on hormones. Canada really has hit rock bottom under Trudeau. I'm glad PoD lives within this insanity. He supports this crap so he can live in it. Just keep it away from me.

[Pants-of-dog]

Does everyone understand why there is a gag order?

And why this man was jailed for contempt of court?

[Puffer Fish]

Does everyone understand why there is a gag order?

Does everyone understand why there is a big problem with a gag order in a case like this, when a judge makes a threat to a parent over a policy that is so controversial?

And why this man was jailed for contempt of court?

It was wrong of the judge to make these orders.

The order about not going to the media seems like it was designed to cover up the judge's first order about threatening to hold the father in contempt if he did not use the proper pronouns in his home with his daughter.

Even if the man had followed all the orders and not been held in contempt, it was still wrong for the judge to threaten him over this.

[Puffer Fish]

I have no idea why I, a communist and a Marxist and a radical who does not even support the existing legal paradigm, ...

Well I'm glad we got out of the way. You're a Communist Marxist, which you plainly admit.

Are you not able to see how there might be a connection between that and how you are not able to see the slightest thing wrong with what this judge did?

[Pants-of-dog]

Does everyone understand why there is a big problem with a gag order in a case like this, when a judge makes a threat to a parent over a policy that is so controversial?

No, I have no clear idea what you think is such a problem.

It was wrong of the judge to make these orders.

The order about not going to the media seems like it was designed to cover up the judge's first order about threatening to hold the father in contempt if he did not use the proper pronouns in his home with his daughter.

Even if the man had followed all the orders and not been held in contempt, it was still wrong for the judge to threaten him over this.

Gag orders are normal for cases involving kids, to protect the kids.

Unless you can come up with a good reason why this kid does not need the same protection as all other kids, a gag order makes sense.

Note that the fact that this topic is controversial suggests it is even more important to protect the kid’s identity.

Well I'm glad we got out of the way. You're a Communist Marxist, which you plainly admit.

Are you not able to see how there might be a connection between that and how you are not able to see the slightest thing wrong with what this judge did?

I just explained why your liberal capitalist democratic society thinks there is not the slightest thing wrong with what this judge did.