We ARE in fact brainwashed - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14596481
I wouldn't say brainwashed, but we are completely conditioned to behave and to think in certain ways. This is also social and cultural engineering. And it is generally reinforced through repetition and shaming techniques.

And it starts at birth.

The flaw to brainwashing is, that if it were really something that could be done, do you really think there would be any free thought allowed at all anywhere in the world? We'd be all one just one big giant mass of robotic goo.

And there would be no free though of any sort, and there would be no culture, and everything would be so sterile, land, dull, and boring.

because the forces of conformity can not handle free thought, individualism, and dynamic differences in any way. They want us to all be mindless, souless automatons and obey them without question.

So no, i don't think there really is such a thing as brainwashing or mind control. Theya re just tools to tell a fictional story.
#14596508
Iron Ant wrote:we are completely conditioned to behave and to think in certain ways. This is also social and cultural engineering. And it is generally reinforced through repetition and shaming techniques.

True, part of the conditioning is the repetitive, shaming cycle you mentioned ... It's a self sustaining system.

The flaw to brainwashing is, that if it were really something that could be done, do you really think there would be any free thought allowed at all anywhere in the world? We'd be all one just one big giant mass of robotic goo.

Nah, to expensive and not necessary. Real Brainwashing of a few individuals for specific projects is all that's required.

because the forces of conformity can not handle free thought, individualism, and dynamic differences in any way. They want us to all be mindless, souless automatons and obey them without question.

Nah, who cares, just "Obey without question" and you'll be fine.


So no, i don't think there really is such a thing as brainwashing or mind control. Theya re just tools to tell a fictional story.

Good dog ...!

Zam

-Almost all people are hypnotics. The proper authority saw to it that the proper belief should be induced, and the people believed properly-
Charles Fort
#14597670
Iron Ant wrote:I hope that's sarcasm.

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Hope springs eternal they say.

Zam
#14597719
Brainwashed to accept wage slavery without a murmur from the slave. Brainwashed to accept the fact that one percent of all humans own fifty percent of the worlds wealth and accept the injustice. Brainwashing starts at an early age and after twelve or so years in "schooling" most are brainwashed.


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#14597736
Since every single post Qatz makes is about how "we're all brainwashed", is it reasonable to say that Qatz is in fact trying to brainwash people into his way of thinking?
#14597863
Iron Ant wrote:I wonder what ti would be like if we could actually take our brain out of our skulls and put it on a shelf and go out and have a good time on the town.


With whats left of the brain after the TV has fucked it up.
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#14704595
I am very interested in the role of television media as a tool for normalization. Something that has fascinated me for some time now is the amount of media that is dedicated to watching other people work. I think professional sports provides the best example of this phenomenon. The voyeurs in this case pay money for the privilege of professing a great stake in something that has nothing to do with them, and actually represents the hard work of others.

I have encountered individuals who spend their entire days watching professional athletes perform on TV. When pointed out to these individuals that they in fact have no stake in the events they are seeing (assuming they are not betting men), and in fact, are watching a highly choreographed piece of performance art by highly paid professionals, the viewers in question will usually dismiss these charges. Television dramas, movies, and indeed video games present much the same dynamic: an empty vessel that the voyeur (or user, in the case of games) can utilize to trade their valuable time for the privilege of experiencing the work of others.

Now, if art is the object that is being viewed, one would expect that no more than a few hours at most could be traded for a small degree of labour- say in the case of a play, or in viewing an art gallery, listening to music or reading fiction. In the TV and video game dynamic, however, hundreds, if not thousands of hours are spent binge watching or leveling-up or following sports "seasons". Political theatre seems to present a similar case. In all these contexts, the viewer is a passive object at the pleasure of others who are doing work.

I call this experience, vicarious work. I believe our society is obsessed with the experience of vicariously working. Furthermore, when the content of the vicarious work is propagandistic, not only does the user/viewer become a passive object, but also the recipient of social programming and conditioning.

When these experiences are married to time structuring and bureaucratic employment, it becomes possible to have citizens live their entire lives without actually doing anything of consequence.

As is said in Plato's Symposium,

"But when I hear another strain, especially that of you rich men and traders, such conversation displeases me; and I pity you who are my companions, because you think that you are doing something when in reality you are doing nothing."

I find it astonishing that this state of affairs has been normalized such that no second thought is given to the consumption of vast quantities of vicariously work propaganda, let alone the exchanging of one's allotted time for the acquisition of a few trifles.
#14704598
MB. wrote:As is said in Plato's Symposium,

"But when I hear another strain, especially that of you rich men and traders, such conversation displeases me; and I pity you who are my companions, because you think that you are doing something when in reality you are doing nothing."


This also applies to pretty much your entire post.

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#14704602
In general we are hypnotised, sleepwalking and cannot see out of our conditioned reality tunnel.
This is the backdrop in our lives.
If we awaken we perceive myths and superstitions.
Maya is the doctrine of illusion, sleep and awakening.
If we take certain drugs this can open the doors of perception and all is revealed.

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#14704719
Where is the line drawn between persuasion and brainwashing? This thread is fat with memes that could be described as either. I don't think there is any serious difference between persuasion and brainwashing, or it is only a difference of intensity rather than kind. This thread is literally a bunch of wannabe brainwashers trying to brainwash random people on the internet that competing gangs of apparently more successful brainwashers are not the brainwashers by whom random guy should be brainwashed.

Persuasion as tool or weapon is as old as speech itself, we pretty much all do it all of the time. Though some are better at it than others and some are professional brainwashers: priests, liberal arts professors, activists, politicians, advertisers, lawyers, PR consultants, journalists...

It isn't a strong tool or weapon though, there is no need to fear it if you keep your wits about you and keep a healthy distrust active. You will always have more to fear from a man with a gun than a cuck with a megaphone.

Don't Panic.
#14706604
SolarCross wrote:Where is the line drawn between persuasion and brainwashing?

Brainwashing involves persuasion (by definition) but persuasion doesn't necessarily involve brainwashing.

With brainwashing, the brain is (intentionally) charged up with planted emotional stimulae. These stimulae are targeted at stripping the brain of its rational ability to distinguish between things, to judge clearly.

Brainwashing uses highly persuasive emotional-prompts to destroy the ability of its victim to "choose wisely" or "act appropriately."

Persuasion doesn't necessarily involve any of these things. Sometimes, persuasion can be found in a rational argument. But this isn't always functional, so brainwashing takes away the viewer's agency to make sure he is "persuaded" ... no matter how irrational the cause.
#14706971
QatzelOk wrote:Brainwashing involves persuasion (by definition) but persuasion doesn't necessarily involve brainwashing.

With brainwashing, the brain is (intentionally) charged up with planted emotional stimulae. These stimulae are targeted at stripping the brain of its rational ability to distinguish between things, to judge clearly.

Brainwashing uses highly persuasive emotional-prompts to destroy the ability of its victim to "choose wisely" or "act appropriately."

Persuasion doesn't necessarily involve any of these things. Sometimes, persuasion can be found in a rational argument. But this isn't always functional, so brainwashing takes away the viewer's agency to make sure he is "persuaded" ... no matter how irrational the cause.

That seems a reasonable distinction to make between persuasion and brainwashing. However if I use your distinction to assess whether a "pepsi logo at a ball stadium" is persuasion or brainwashing, I really don't see how it is the latter. On the other hand your attempt to use "emotional-prompts", in this case induced fear, in particular the fear of loss of control, to conflate commercial advertising with something like an assault on the person, comes up as looking rather close to brainwashing.

Pepsi logo says "hi look I paid money to sponsor this event!"

You say "pepsi logo is trying to hijack your brain and turn you into a slave like zombie! be afraid!"

Really which is persuasion and which is brainwashing?
User avatar
By MB.
#14706984
The Pepsi logo actually represents an entire regime of conditioning and power, and encourages the normalization of domination- or so would argue our critical theory colleagues.

The authority of the logo to decry that money speaks is absolute, the notion that the use of space is rightly purchased by the marketing division of a billion dollar global franchise and it's message directed at you to arrange your life in some way around the logo and it's message is itself a statement about the social values and nature of our civilization.

The very association of the iconography of a sugary syrup drink with the concept of logos is itself significant in that the civilization considers the public display of corporate advertising a reasonable and rationale use of space-time.

The logos of Pepsi then is a powerful statement that normalizes and conditions the people to value the advertising message of strangers from the company's graphic design and marketing branches, and thier appropriation of physical space with the idea of consuming the sugar drink. The very attachment to capitalism and the concept of market exchange is replaced by the logos of senseless idea consumption.

As baudrillaurd argued,

"...goods are no longer appealing because of their individual properties, consumers only recognise them as part of a particular style: in a particular living room set, combined with certain objects and colour combinations for example."
#14707004
MB. wrote:The Pepsi logo actually represents an entire regime of conditioning and power, and encourages the normalization of domination- or so would argue our critical theory colleagues.

The authority of the logo to decry that money speaks is absolute, the notion that the use of space is rightly purchased by the marketing division of a billion dollar global franchise and it's message directed at you to arrange your life in some way around the logo and it's message is itself a statement about the social values and nature of our civilization.

The very association of the iconography of a sugary syrup drink with the concept of logos is itself significant in that the civilization considers the public display of corporate advertising a reasonable and rationale use of space-time.

The logos of Pepsi then is a powerful statement that normalizes and conditions the people to value the advertising message of strangers from the company's graphic design and marketing branches, and thier appropriation of physical space with the idea of consuming the sugar drink. The very attachment to capitalism and the concept of market exchange is replaced by the logos of senseless idea consumption.

As baudrillaurd argued,

"...goods are no longer appealing because of their individual properties, consumers only recognise them as part of a particular style: in a particular living room set, combined with certain objects and colour combinations for example."

None of this is true. It might have worked as a satire of the sort of garbage conspiracy theories spewed up by priests and leftists to draw attention to themselves and pose as saviours from a terrible evil albeit an imaginary one, but it is too dull and lacks any wit.
#14707026
:roll: Please go dig through the threads I've created like:

Screen Brain: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=161346
When cognitive scientists argue over the influence of violent video games & violent entertainment in general, they miss the mediums massage entirely. The technology behind the flickering screen that delivers our entertainment has more influence than any content absorbed through one media's form. Again, the form dictates content, and the form of any information system has a greater impact than the informational content.

The physiological "rewiring" through new forms of technology enable the real "brainwashing."


The average attention span for the notoriously ill-focused goldfish is nine seconds, but according to a new study from Microsoft Corp., people now generally lose concentration after eight seconds, highlighting the affects of an increasingly digitalized lifestyle on the brain.

http://time.com/3858309/attention-spans-goldfish/


Emotional Intelligence & Media
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=161131
The chemical arrangement inside each brain tends to be dependent on external stimuli. Cognitive conditioning can strengthen or weaken synaptic bridges when we engage in & repeat the same method of behavior. The human mind is malleable, neuroplasticity allows us to be very adaptable and very stubborn. For the repetition builds its own repeated model of reception. In theory, the information promulgator is deeply embedded and involved in building synaptic pathways. These pathways manifest through psychogenic interactions with the world. Every manifestation of brain activity must go through the intellectual & emotional areas of our mind's electric tapestry.


As for the content, language & sigils communicate ideas & shape our actions.

Popular pattern psychosis viewtopic.php?f=53&t=159293
Popular pattern psychosis: Prolonged social phenomenon consisting of sensory induced behavior and socioeconomic psychology (group-think). Triggered by cognitive pattern suggestion and recognition(exposure followed by evaluation). Producing an enigmatic cultural identity by unifying individual egos through manufactured information bias.


I highly recommend Marshall McLuhan's Mechanical Bride
The Mechanical Bride: Folklore of Industrial Man is a pioneering study of popular culture by Herbert Marshall McLuhan, treating newspapers, comics, and advertisements as poetic texts. Or his follow up, Culture is our business


At the end of the day, we program our reality through our senses & our brain's encoding & decoding process.

The Pepsi soft-drink is just a sugary beverage, but once you develop a sigil & create a myth around it, it becomes more than just a beverage, it becomes a way of thinking & a way of expressing who you are within the commercial world (artificial reality). Coke & Pepsi illustrate the dichotomy of false paradigms and how human beings nurture their identity through mythic forms.
#14707082
SolarCross wrote:None of this is true. It might have worked as a satire of the sort of garbage conspiracy theories spewed up by priests and leftists to draw attention to themselves and pose as saviours from a terrible evil albeit an imaginary one, but it is too dull and lacks any wit.

Okay. If you can't wrap your head around post-modern theory...

Pepsi pays for a logo placement in many sports venues. The reason they do this is NOT so that people think "Pepsi is nice." Thinking Pepsi is nice doesn't increase their sales.

So what big companies like Pepsi do is that they make sure their logo is in eye-shot of places of strategic emotional events - like sports venues, college campuses, theme parks and spectacles. Their products are both sold at these venues, and feature prominently in the decor.

Likewise, when you watch sports on television, the venues care "coated" in corporate logos like Pepsi and Honda.

The idea is that, by seeing these logos repeatedly while experiencing a strong emotional response, your emotional response is transfered onto the product. You will feel a high-energy, positive vibe each time you see the logo, and you won't know why. THIS DOES SELL more product.

Brainwashing increases sales of many products, which is why we're forced to endure it.
#14707194
QatzelOk wrote:Okay. If you can't wrap your head around post-modern theory...

Pepsi pays for a logo placement in many sports venues. The reason they do this is NOT so that people think "Pepsi is nice." Thinking Pepsi is nice doesn't increase their sales.

So what big companies like Pepsi do is that they make sure their logo is in eye-shot of places of strategic emotional events - like sports venues, college campuses, theme parks and spectacles. Their products are both sold at these venues, and feature prominently in the decor.

Likewise, when you watch sports on television, the venues care "coated" in corporate logos like Pepsi and Honda.

The idea is that, by seeing these logos repeatedly while experiencing a strong emotional response, your emotional response is transfered onto the product. You will feel a high-energy, positive vibe each time you see the logo, and you won't know why. THIS DOES SELL more product.

Brainwashing increases sales of many products, which is why we're forced to endure it.

If they were gambling too hard on the emotional content of sporting games that could surely back fire as half the time the spectator's favoured team loses. Pepsi the drink of disappointment, defeat and humiliation! I honestly think you are grossly over-egging this little omelet. People do buy Pepsi because they are aware of it, the point of advertising is to communicate the existence of a product, remind people that it still exists and also to persuade people to buy it. Pepsi logo, or tire logo or whatever, at a stadium is only doing the first two. TV, radio and newspaper adverts offer more scope for persuasion. In comparison with the genuine brainwashing practised by religious institutions and political groups (since forever), commercial advertising is extremely weak tea at its worst. You are crying over nothing.
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