Oliver Stone: The Putin Interviews - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14815066
I watched The Putin Interviews today (or rather yesterday) and Part 4 convinced me that there has been a cyber war going on between the two countries and their governments for some time, and they meddle with each other's elections too. Putin actually contradicts himself when he completely denies Russian meddling with U.S. elections, whereas he says the U.S. was meddling with the 2012 Russian elections and claims in general that Russia always responds in kind (he talks about action and counteraction). Maybe he doesn't care if we figure out the truth between the lines.
#14815135
Exposing legitimate DNC corruption (Putin emphasizes this too 100x) is not 'hacking an election'. It's informing the voters. What Comey did had far more direct impact on Clinton's prospects than all the wikileaks DNC stuff.

They've been going hard at trump for months now to try and change the narrative and undo the damage to the deep state. Much to their frustration, it turns out he's cleaner than your average political figure and so the anonymous sources are piling up, the torrent of fake news is unrelenting. And yes emphasis on fake.

And with this torrent Russia has been swept up too. If you repeat a lie enough it becomes part of the lexicon as some kind of default. Not truth, not fact, but a default alternate reality. This is where were at. Putin expressed his thoughts on this too and alluded to the fact that western media is living in its own reality, trying to project it onto the public on a daily basis.

Putin also suggested that whatever administration shows up, US foreign policy tends to stay the same, driven by an established set of interest groups. And this is being proven, Trump's administration is being more anti-Russian than Bush or Obama were, seemingly. He suggests this is because the administration doesn't actually have much control over the deep state, and that the entire media charade is there to not only block Trump's reforms, but to create an impassable barrier between his administration and Russia.

In that context it is so obvious what Trump's opponents are doing.
Last edited by Igor Antunov on 17 Jun 2017 02:57, edited 1 time in total.
#14815137
Igor Antunov wrote:Exposing legitimate DNC corruption (Putin emphasizes this too 100x) is not 'hacking an election'. It's informing the voters.

... who apparently don't deserve to be informed of cabinet connections to foreign governments?
#14815139
Very flimsy connections. By the standards used to sully Trump's cabinet choices, Clinton was basically owned and operated by the Saudis and had far more Russian connections. But suddenly it matters exponentially that Trump's picks of career Washington figures have had actual contact with the outside world over their many decades of public service-something they all do. Right...
#14815144
Gee, they might be less flimsy if the executive branch weren't obstructing investigations.

I've been careful to keep from proclaiming that there is a Russia connection (or if there was, that it had to do with the election directly), but like a judge, I'd like to hear the case made. The fact that USS Trump has been trying to patch leaks and fire everyone involved is not helping his credibility, and is only making people question more.
#14815146
Radical shifts in policy every 4-8 years causing wild inconsistencies: a good thing, apparently.

Igor Antunov wrote:Very flimsy connections. By the standards used to sully Trump's cabinet choices, Clinton was basically owned and operated by the Saudis and had far more Russian connections. But suddenly it matters exponentially that Trump's picks of career Washington figures have had actual contact with the outside world over their many decades of public service-something they all do. Right...


A guy who was swayed to the Saudi's views on Qatar because they projected his image onto a hotel and flattered him: a good thing, and different from Clinton, apparently.
#14815156
Igor Antunov wrote:That's the public version. America's largest military base in the ME is still in Qatar. Trump could close it today.

What, and not take back the $13 billion in weapons he just sold them?
#14815157
Good job breaking the 4th wall and revealing your ignornace, Igor.

The Saudis knew exactly who Trump was and flattered him so hard that when he stepped off his plane in an Israeli airport he told them, "I just came back from the Middle East!" and everyone facepalmed.
#14815174
Igor Antunov wrote:Exposing legitimate DNC corruption (Putin emphasizes this too 100x) is not 'hacking an election'. It's informing the voters.


Well, when the deep state thinks that the exposing of the corruption is tantamount to "destabilising of America", then they de facto admit that the stability of American political system is based on corruption.

These idiots in the ((MSM)) do not understand what message they are delivering to "American deplorables".

:D
Last edited by ArtAllm on 17 Jun 2017 06:10, edited 1 time in total.
#14815202
Igor Antunov wrote:FTFY Zag. And ultimately Trump isn't one to throw away a good deal when he sees it. Let Obama's arms transfer legacy play out. Some of it still serves Us interests.

Gee, wonder if you'd allow the same carryover for the economy from Obama.
#14815263
MistyTiger wrote:I'll see if I can stand to watch the interviews soon.

No doubt that Stone wants his name in the news and what better way than to speak with Putin? Oh well.

Stone always looks stoned disorganised, because he couldn't sleep due to the jet lag he says. I don't think the interviews are special in any way, however, Putin's character becomes more-or-less clear. He meddled with the U.S. elections mostly because they meddled with the Russian elections four years earlier, which has consequences now. They always respond in kind, like they develop weapons systems able to overwhelm American ABM-systems as a countermeasure in kind. When sanctions are imposed on them, they impose sanctions as well. So when someone meddles with their elections, they meddle with theirs. It's really as simple as that and Putin is straight and frank about it. I'm also sure they meddled with the Brexit vote as a response to American meddling in Ukraine. It would have been consequent and Putinesque at least, and Brexit is good for Russia too, it's even better than Trump.
#14815264
Gee, wonder if you'd allow the same carryover for the economy from Obama.


Why? America isn't China. The economy has been on auto pilot for years. There's no meaningful planning going on. Obama's greatest economic achievement was giving billions to a bunch of banksters.

Somehow you're less interesting and also worse at arguing when you're not being a 30+ year old man imitating a teenage /pol/ troll, Igor.


Somehow your observation is irrelevant to me.

My review to those who haven't seen it yet;

---------------------------------------------
With every subsequent hour, Oliver Stone's questions get more and more contentious. Putin manages to answer every single one (except those bordering on highly classified territory). He does so in detail, and sometimes from different perspectives.

This documentary offers revealing insights into the mind of Putin, his words, his body language, his tendency to play with the sofa stitching as he talks. From geopolitical issues, sensitive domestic Russian affairs to Putin's personal life; it's all there.

I will state an interesting observation; what rustles Putin's jimmies the most is the topic of NATO encroachment toward Russia's borders, and the US administration's stationing of ABM systems in eastern Europe. The only time during the interviews you can see Putin's expression change to one of barely veiled annoyance is when the conversation veers in this direction.

Another thing of note is Putins very academic answers to a variety of topics. Stone asks him about the prominence and rise of the Russian Orthodox Church during his tenure. Putin answers by stating that after the fall of communism and its associated ideology, civil society had nothing else to grasp onto, but the centuries old traditions that the Church provides. Putin says he supported this to give people something to believe in after the traumatic turmoil that was the 90's. To provide stability in their lives. A very practical answer, and it even leads onto more sensitive questions, such as the treatment of homosexuality in Russia. And Putin answers this candidly as as well. Even jokingly sometimes to highlight the absurdity of Russian culture in regards to such topics. This is the theme throughout. There is very little dodging or political wordplay. Most of his answers are formed on the spot, and seem to come from him directly.

It is obvious Oliver was charmed during the filming of this. It is apparent Putin humored him on many occasions and that he has a very powerful ability to charm those he talks to. We see a controversial leader (at least from a western perspective) give very direct, apolitical answers to every question that the typical viewer might want to ask such a public figure. In this regard Mr Stone did very well.

It becomes patently obvious as to why Russians would express such far ranging support toward Putin. He's very convincing and obsessed with practicalities. But of course; you be the judge. It's a very informative, revealing 4 hours and definitely worth your time.
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#14815702
Stone has long been known for being a sucker to authoritarian assholes. After all he put Chavez on a pedestal when it was still opportune to do so. Look at where Venezuela is now.

The interview will air on a Russian state channel. That says it all.
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