[Drlee]

Thanks for the personal insults Dave.

We'll see. The internet has in the past decade moved from an ecosystem of many independent sites into a few giant platforms. In a way it's a return to America Online which is bizarre.

You have seen nothing yet. When Trump and the fake conservatives in the legislature eliminate net neutrality you had better hope the mainstream media is still robust.

It is sad when young people do not understand the difference between conservatism and fascism.

[Igor Antunov]

you had better hope the mainstream media is still robust

Robust enough to tow the same tired old narrative across the board as if it were acting in unison, directed by a single entity? That robust?

BURN IT ALL DOWN.

[One Degree]

The dichotomy of fake news has the propaganda value of forcing you to choose sides and fight one another. Pofo shows how even people with brilliant minds have succumbed to this tantalizing opportunity to attack the 'others'. If our society provided the environment for honest contemplation and evaluation, then we could step back and see how ridiculous our pontificating is. Pick a side, instill a sense of righteousness, and our hubris knows no bounds. We all accept ridiculous ideas as reasonable.

[jimjam]

It is sad when young people do not understand the difference between conservatism and fascism

OH, Drlee................You are a baby boomer and the sooner you realize that ALL boomers are completely incapable of being correct about anything the better off you will be. I thank God that technically I am not a boomer. I am actually older than a boomer which, apparently, means I am worse.

But, to your point about fascism, it is well taken. The fascists are doing a marvelous job of incrementally shutting down our freedoms, inch by inch. So far our Fureher is having some difficulty dictating terms to the form of government designed by the Founding Fathers so long ago. Stay tuned.

********<<<<<<<<<<********>>>>>>>>>>>>

The primary reason I posted this thread was to point out what I consider the gross hypocrisy of (usually) conservative extremists who wail on and on about the season's newest brilliant discovery: fake news.... while concurrently sucking down their own daily dose of equally fake news that happens to appeal to their own prejudices. Of course there is lots on CNN et al that poses as "news" while being simple propaganda. But, give me a break, have you listened in to some of the really ridiculous nonsense being put out there by FOX? Really really stupid shit that makes me worry about the general intelligence level of my neighbors.

Also, unsurprisingly, while fake news certainly exists 360 degrees around the spectrum, not all news is fake but, whenever the trump minions hear anything at all that puts their boy in a less than adoring light, the knee jerk cry of "fake news" is raised with great indignation regardless of any consideration of actual veracity. Ironically, the concept of "fake news" is frequently fake .

[One Degree]

@jimjam
I think it might even be more pathetic than you portray. What I see is a play where the parts were decided before hand and we all agreed to perform. If you are a Democrat then you must play the role of the 'smarter than you therefore I know better' role and a Republican must play the role of the disenfranchised peasant. Both are a total misrepresentation of the reality, but we accepted the roles and we do our best to play them.
What else would you expect when politics is theater? This is just one more reason why we can not communicate because we are not real people, just actors reciting our lines.

[Dave]

Thanks for the personal insults Dave.



You have seen nothing yet. When Trump and the fake conservatives in the legislature eliminate net neutrality you had better hope the mainstream media is still robust.

The mainstream media is our enemy and must be destroyed. Decades of media propaganda has resulted in fossilized, degenerate minds in apparently the entire generation born between 1946-1964.

Hence you have ridiculous things going on like the Oath Keepers attacking the alt right and stopping us from sweeping the streets of antifa punks to prove they're not racist.

The one upside of ending net neutrality is that it will result in Facebook, Google, major media organizations, etc. being price gouged.

It is sad when young people do not understand the difference between conservatism and fascism.

We understand it quite well.

Conservatives failed. They did not succeed in conserving anything other than 2nd amendment rights (I'll give them that) and a low long term capital gains tax rate.

OH, Drlee................You are a baby boomer and the sooner you realize that ALL boomers are completely incapable of being correct about anything the better off you will be. I thank God that technically I am not a boomer. I am actually older than a boomer which, apparently, means I am worse.

The Silent Generation is an improvement over Baby Boomers, who as far as I can tell could not possibly be more wrong than any generation before or after. Though credit where credit is due: Donald Trump, Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Jared Taylor, and Peter Brimelow are all Baby Boomers.

And hey, Wilbur Ross is a member of your generation. Congrats!

But, to your point about fascism, it is well taken. The fascists are doing a marvelous job of incrementally shutting down our freedoms, inch by inch. So far our Fureher is having some difficulty dictating terms to the form of government designed by the Founding Fathers so long ago. Stay tuned.

What planet do you live on? We're not the ones no-platforming people, stating "hate speech is not free speech", or sending out masked mobs to violently attack any right-of-center speakers and meetings.

The primary reason I posted this thread was to point out what I consider the gross hypocrisy of (usually) conservative extremists who wail on and on about the season's newest brilliant discovery: fake news.... while concurrently sucking down their own daily dose of equally fake news that happens to appeal to their own prejudices. Of course there is lots on CNN et al that poses as "news" while being simple propaganda. But, give me a break, have you listened in to some of the really ridiculous nonsense being put out there by FOX? Really really stupid shit that makes me worry about the general intelligence level of my neighbors.

Also, unsurprisingly, while fake news certainly exists 360 degrees around the spectrum, not all news is fake but, whenever the trump minions hear anything at all that puts their boy in a less than adoring light, the knee jerk cry of "fake news" is raised with great indignation regardless of any consideration of actual veracity. Ironically, the concept of "fake news" is frequently fake .

Concentrated media operating under the pretense of objectivity is over. The average cable news viewer is over sixty years old. The only age bracket in which more than 50% of people read newspapers daily is 65+.

We're returning to the 19th century media climate of a diversity of news sources which openly declare their partisan affiliations. I don't need mainstream media organizations like the Jew York Crimes or the War Street Jewnal to lie to me about Europe's rapefugees. I can get live reporting from an independent reporter streamed from the streets of Berlin on demand.

So your neighbors watch Fox News...are your neighbors old? The average Fox News viewer is 68 years old. I get a kick out of seeing the Fox News ads for hip replacements, knee surgery, and annuities when it's on at the gym.

[Drlee]

You know Dave. If you seek the truth it will set you free:

Median Age of viewers:

Fox: 48.8
CNN: 48.9
MSNBC: 47

Household income:

Fox: 61K
CNN: 63K
MSNBC: 68K

Male:

FOX: 53%
CNN: 52%
MSNBC: 54%

INCOME 75K+

Fox: 38%
CNN: 40%
MSNBC: 40%

I could go on. The thing that is instantly obvious is that there is no real difference between who watches these. Just a point of view.

Oldish numbers but close enough for discussion.

[MB.]

Can you provide sources to support those figures Drlee, those are very revealing, if true.

[Dave]

@Drlee,

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/201 ... one-189393

The average Fox News viewer overall is 68.8, while the average ages of MSNBC and CNN viewers were 62.5 and 62.8, respectively.

And--anecdotal--here I am arguing about cable news with two old dudes who probably watch cable news.

What's your source for the data? Possible average viewer age dropped as a result of the exciting politics since 2015.

[jimjam]

fossilized, degenerate minds in apparently the entire generation born between 1946-1964.

your generation

I get a kick out of seeing the Fox News ads for hip replacements, knee surgery, and annuities when it's on at the gym.

If you are lucky and do not conduct yourself with complete stupidity in this life you get to that stage of life called "old age". Aside from endlessly informing others, who by and large do not give a shit, of our various health issues we get to enjoy an interesting perspective that we were not aware of in our younger years. I look back upon my life as I passed through the "arrogance of youth" stage with equal portions of regret and amusement that I was such a jerk. Strength, intelligence and confidence were there in abundance but, wisdom and compassion were virtually non existent.

My dumbest "mistake" which was based upon a foundation of arrogance? Not buying that ocean side house with a water view from every window .................. for $50,000.

[Drlee]

I can MB:

Here is the link: (Look down the page)

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-demographics-of-Fox-News-viewers

[Dave]

@jimjam,

Yes Jimjam, if the good lord wills it, I will one day be old. You will then be dead, rest in peace. At that time, whipper snappers will be telling me I'm old, fossilized, stuck in the past, etc.

I have nothing against the elderly. My own father is getting up there in age--he turned 67 five days ago. Fortunately he still has his health and clear wits--sharp as a tack, fit, and spry.

My grandparents are now all deceased, but I still cherish having two-hour long breakfast conversations with my paternal grandmother every morning in her kitchen when I'd stay with her at her home in Stockholm.

But Max Planck once observed that, "Science progresses one funeral at a time."

Sometimes the old ideas are just wrong, and the old people won't let go of them as their ideas were set in a different time. People above a certain age in the West, and I'm not sure what the line is, really did swallow this freedom, individualism, and equality crap. It's easy to zero in on Baby Boomers, because people born thirty years earlier certainly didn't swallow that claptrap.

And this thread complaining about Fox News is just comical, since those of us who are young (and I'm not that young--born in 1985) and supported Trump don't even watch Fox News--or any cable news.

@Drlee
2014 is decidedly more recent than 2007.

Assuming BOTH our figures are true, this shows a shocking aging in cable news viewership in under a decade.

[One Degree]

These figures must only relate to who is watching the TV versions and do not include their online versions. The viewership numbers for the top 3 networks are only about 5 million people. Less than 2% of the population. I must assume these do not include their online versions.
I never watch any of these networks on TV, but I follow them all online.

[Dave]

@One Degree,

Nielsen ratings, so yes, just television. 5% of the population is still a huge figure.

Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity clips are sometimes shared by alt-right and alt-lite Twitter accounts, but generally I don't see much of any of these mainstream media losers. And of course their counterparts on CNN, MSNBC, etc. are sometimes shared for purposes of analyzing the enemy.

Why would I watch some corporate controlled buffoon like Anderson Cooper when I can tune into independent media?

[jimjam]

@jimjam
I think it might even be more pathetic than you portray. What I see is a play where the parts were decided before hand and we all agreed to perform. If you are a Democrat then you must play the role of the 'smarter than you therefore I know better' role and a Republican must play the role of the disenfranchised peasant. Both are a total misrepresentation of the reality, but we accepted the roles and we do our best to play them.
What else would you expect when politics is theater? This is just one more reason why we can not communicate because we are not real people, just actors reciting our lines.

I generally agree and am sadly amazed at how effective our "leaders" in conjunction with various media are in conditioning the masses to join in on various predetermined roles. It is an old old story of divide and conquer. And it works very well. I, of course, am the exception that proves the rule. I always think things through intelligently and vote for what/who ever I feel will do the greatest good for the greatest number ( ).

I really do not expect any of our leaders to even try to do what is best for the country/people anymore. America desperately craves quality leadership and what do we get? An incompetent money loving asshole who will spend the next few years fending off investigators, prosecutors and committees that are attempting to get at all the slime he has buried just below the surface. Just look at the Obamacare repeal/replace farce. Six months and nothing but bad ideas that will increase pain, suffering and early death not to mention personal bankruptcy. But, hey, let's build a monument to our stupidity in the form of a giant wall we can cower behind.

[Dave]

I always think things through intelligently and vote for what/who ever I feel will do the greatest good for the greatest number ( ).

And this is your problem.

Politics is about figuring out just whose side you're on, and who's against you.

“The fundamental theological dogma of the evilness of the world and man leads, just as does the distinction of friend and enemy, to a categorization of men and makes impossible the undifferentiated optimism of a universal conception of man. In a good world among good people, only peace, security, and harmony prevail. Priests and theologians are here just as superfluous as politicians and statesmen. What the denial of original sin means socially and from the viewpoint of individual psychology has been shown by Ernst Troeltsch in his Soziallehren der christlichen Kirchen und Gruppen and Selliere in the examples of numerous sects, heretics, romantics and anarchists. The methodical connection of theological and political presuppositions is clear. But theological interference generally confuses political concepts because it shifts the distinction usually into moral theology. Political thinkers such as Machiavelli, Hobbes, and often Fichte presuppose with their pessimism only the reality or possibility of the distinction of friend and enemy. For Hobbes, truly a powerful and systematic political thinker, the pessimistic conception of man is the elementary presupposition of a specific system of political thought. He also recognizes correctly that the conviction of each side that it possesses the truth, the good, and the just bring about the worst enmities, finally the war of all against all. This fact is not the product of a frightful and disquieting fantasy nor of a philosophy based on free competition by a bourgeois society in its first stage (Toennies), but is the fundamental presupposition of a specific political philosophy.”

You elderly people grew up in a (mostly) homogenous nation-state (other than the blacks), and don't realize America has radically changed.

The goal is no longer the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

It's the greatest good for our people. And that means some other people will take losses.

[jimjam]

You elderly people grew up in a (mostly) homogenous nation-state (other than the blacks), and don't realize America has radically changed.The goal is no longer the greatest good for the greatest number of people.It's the greatest good for our people. And that means some other people will take losses.

Facetiousness does not play well in a chat room. Lighten up Dave. You need to work on your sense of humor.

[Stormsmith]

Sometimes the old ideas are just wrong, and the old people won't let go of them as their ideas were set in a different time. People above a certain age in the West, and I'm not sure what the line is, really did swallow this freedom, individualism, and equality crap. It's easy to zero in on Baby Boomers, because people born thirty years earlier certainly didn't swallow that claptrap.

If you had been born into the boomer generation, or a decade before the second world War when radio was the MSM, you'd know there was a pressing need for social reform. An argument can be made that social rights are absolute.

Assuming BOTH our figures are true, this shows a shocking aging in cable news viewership in under a decade.

Not necessarily. You'd need to compare methodologies to make an accurate distinction.

[One Degree]

I was a conservative in the 60's and therefore did not support the liberal movement, but it was necessary. Like all movements and organizations, they refuse to die after they have accomplished their original goals. They must keep inventing new ways to keep themselves alive until they reach the point Liberals have today of being a danger to society rather than a benefit. The gradual transition from beneficial to detrimental blinds their followers to what is happening. They think they are still pursuing the original goals.

[blackjack21]

The liberals just can't stand it when they have any competition or free speech with different opinions.

Isn't that the truth. It's as if their ideas require a monopoly in order for them to win. What good are their ideas if they can't stand competition.

You, it seems, agree that Fox is a purveyor of fake news.

Most of FoxNews' evening line up are op-ed programs, not news at all. However, as bizarro as it is to say so, I think probably only Sean Hannity and a very few others like Ann Coulter and some other guy whose name escapes me accurately predicted Trump's victory. Essentially, everyone else got it totally wrong. Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter are not news reporters at all. How do you figure these other outlets are somehow better when they were 100% wrong about the last election?

It was the first to mix radical political pundits (Beck, O'Rielly, Hannity, etc) into the news cycle.

You don't remember CNN's Crossfire or Evans & Novak?

This was a blatant attempt to fool the audience and lend credence to what was, at its heart, just neo-con talking points.

Fool the audience? Sean Hannity was the only regular TV talking head that predicted a Trump victory, and he's not even a journalist.

Even FNC is losing numbers.

Yea, but that's because they fired Bill O'Reilly for alleged sexual harassment.

We're not the ones no-platforming people, stating "hate speech is not free speech", or sending out masked mobs to violently attack any right-of-center speakers and meetings.

Yep. They are pretty sore about the DNC hacks showing deep collusion between the MSM and the Democratic party. We all knew this beforehand, but they can't deny it with credulity anymore.

Assuming BOTH our figures are true, this shows a shocking aging in cable news viewership in under a decade.

Millenials aren't into TV. To be quite honest, if it weren't for football and FoxNews, I wouldn't spring for cable at all. I watch more YouTube than anything now.

Why would I watch some corporate controlled buffoon like Anderson Cooper when I can tune into independent media?

Why they make homosexuals anchors in a predominantly Christian country is anyone's guess.

America desperately craves quality leadership and what do we get? An incompetent money loving asshole who will spend the next few years fending off investigators, prosecutors and committees that are attempting to get at all the slime he has buried just below the surface.

Trump has exposed the political duopoly which is a great achievement. Nobody in their right mind looks to politicians as a source of virtue.