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#14826629
Thank you. It sounds like it does need repairing if not transforming. Repeal is off the table. GOP haven't come up with a thing after 7 years, because they don't want to. As I said above, there are scads of plans, workable tested plans you could chose and I don't think anyone's thought to look and see if there's one that would suit Americans.
#14826709
Hindsite who does not understand how single payer insurance works said......

Then there would be no choice or competition at all. That is called a monopoly.


No its not. Medicare is a single payer system and I can't turn my television on without seeing yet another company trying to get my medicare dollars. Canada is a single payer system of sorts and it has a thriving competition for those dollars.


That is not the best answer and neither is Obamacare. I believe Capitalism and the market base system is best for healthcare, except for those that actually need welfare. I believe we must make sure there is much competition in the healthcare industry in every part of the country.


We tried it your way. Here is what happened.

1. The insurance companies denied coverage to anyone who needed it.

2. The insurance companies got the federal government to insure all of the sick and old people they did not want to cover.

3. We pay a higher percentage of our GDP than any other country BY FAR and do not cover even close to everyone. We pay more individually than in any developed country.

4. The so-called free market system brought us horrible outcomes. Our people do not even know what good health care looks like.

5. There is absolutely no way you are going to get free market health care and the republicans are not even thinking of offering it. Their bill is a sham. It does not open markets. It does not even allow the federal government to negotiate drug prices.

6. There are however a lot of monumentally stupid people who have been fooled but their sellout to lobbying money and the wealthy.



Perhaps, what you really mean is that I don't understand politics.
#14826717
And the GOP has not come up with a better health plan because they are on the side of the insurance companies. If they came up with something better than Obamacare, then they would be treating insurance companies even worse than Obama. Then they would really have to sleep with their guns under their pillows at night. :lol:
#14826735
DrLee wrote:No its not. Medicare is a single payer system and I can't turn my television on without seeing yet another company trying to get my medicare dollars. Canada is a single payer system of sorts and it has a thriving competition for those dollars.

True. Almost all doctor care stuff is single payer. Private insurances covers dentists, eye doctors, physiotherapists, massage etc. Private insurance also covers drugs the provincial plan doesn't. Each province and territory created it's own plan, so there's some variety from coast to coast.

You just know that at some point, someone in your family is going to become critically ill. It's nice to know you won't lose everything you own, that your kids will get your house, not your doctor. And we pay less.
#14826894
You just know that at some point, someone in your family is going to become critically ill. It's nice to know you won't lose everything you own, that your kids will get your house, not your doctor. And we pay less.


So Canada pays 48% of what we do per person for health care.

Unlike us they cover virtually everyone in the country.

They have much better outcomes than we do.

Their doctors are paid about what ours are.

Private providers supply most services.

There are no point-of-sale charges for most things and the poor and wealthy pay with tax money which makes the system progressively taxed.

They can buy private insurance to cover a variety of "luxury" additional features.
#14826896
And it can even be done though the states eliminating Conservative resistance to anything 'national'.
#14826920
Yes. The Feds transfer money to the provinces/territories for health care providing they comply with the Fed mandate: Canada Health Act:

"Provincial and territorial health care insurance plans must meet the standards described in the Canada Health Act. This is necessary to get their full payment under the Canada Health Transfer.

These standards include:

public administration
comprehensiveness
universality
portability
accessibility"

For good or ill, there are special provisions for first nations bands. But my point remains, world-wide, there are any number of plans that have been operational for decades, including Hawaii. Washington doesn't have to start from scratch. But they should get on with it.

Also, to Dr Lee, I suspect the difference in outcome is a direct result of (a) universal application and (b) housekeeping within hospitals that affect post operative infections.
#14826946
Also, to Dr Lee, I suspect the difference in outcome is a direct result of (a) universal application and (b) housekeeping within hospitals that affect post operative infections.


There are a variety of reasons. First among them is, of course, delayed diagnosis and care due to an inability/reluctance to pay. You can ignore a cough for a long time if you are facing a $1500.00+ bill for an office visit and X-ray/scan.

Regarding hospital acquired infections. Canada reports 1 in 9 patients getting these infections and our CDC says something like 1 in 25. The problem is that you may be telling the truth. Or at least more of it. The numbers in the US are disturbingly varied. In the US our number three cause of death is pneumonia. About 25% more people die of this in the US than in Canada.

Part of our longevity problem is people living in poverty. Your poverty rate is 9.1% and ours is over 15%. And, of course, our people living in poverty frequently access substandard health care if any. You do not have that problem.

The take-away for our free-market health care morons is this. For less than 1/2 of what we pay per person for health care your life expectancy is 82 years and ours is 79. Health care is not the entire story but it is the biggest part of it.
#14827010
Drlee wrote:Medicare is a single payer system and I can't turn my television on without seeing yet another company trying to get my medicare dollars. Canada is a single payer system of sorts and it has a thriving competition for those dollars.

Those insurance companies you are referring to are trying to get retires to pay for insurance to cover the 20% that medicare will not cover. Medicare is just for those that are 65 years old and up and who have been paying payroll taxes during their working years to help cover the majority of their medical care after retirement. Those retirees still have money taken out of their Social Security retirement check each month for medical coverage. And both the Social Security and medicare funds are in danger not being enough to cover future retirees.

I am not sure how we get Medicaid dollars for those that never paid a dime and probably never will. I guess that comes from both the federal and state governments stealing money from hard working people by collecting more taxes or borrowing more money so the federal government is $20,000,000,000 in debt now. How much more in debt do you wish for us to go so those that can't or don't want to work can get free healthcare?

The main problem I see with Obamacare is that it made healthcare not affordable for those people that had health insurance before and were satisfied with their doctor and their plan. I don't see why they are the ones that should suffer just to make sure more people had health insurance by stealing other peoples money to pay for it. The government stealing other peoples money is how a single payer system works. Then the government determines when you get healthcare and what is covered.

That is the way I see it.
Drlee wrote:We tried it your way. Here is what happened.

1. The insurance companies denied coverage to anyone who needed it.

2. The insurance companies got the federal government to insure all of the sick and old people they did not want to cover.

3. We pay a higher percentage of our GDP than any other country BY FAR and do not cover even close to everyone. We pay more individually than in any developed country.

4. The so-called free market system brought us horrible outcomes. Our people do not even know what good health care looks like.

5. There is absolutely no way you are going to get free market health care and the republicans are not even thinking of offering it. Their bill is a sham. It does not open markets. It does not even allow the federal government to negotiate drug prices.

6. There are however a lot of monumentally stupid people who have been fooled but their sellout to lobbying money and the wealthy.

I did not say that was my way. It is not my way.
#14827022
Regarding hospital acquired infections. Canada reports 1 in 9 patients getting these infections and our CDC says something like 1 in 25. The problem is that you may be telling the truth. Or at least more of it. The numbers in the US are disturbingly varied. In the US our number three cause of death is pneumonia. About 25% more people die of this in the US than in Canada.

No hospital wants to draw negative attention to itself and no politician wants the same scrutiny. I remember years ago that some worldwide organisation like WHO warned Canada that other countries were interpreting infant mortality in the way that was least ghastly for the countries and health care givers.

Part of our longevity problem is people living in poverty. Your poverty rate is 9.1% and ours is over 15%. And, of course, our people living in poverty frequently access substandard health care if any. You do not have that problem.

We need to lower drug costs. Seriously. This is an issue.

The take-away for our free-market health care morons is this. For less than 1/2 of what we pay per person for health care your life expectancy is 82 years and ours is 79. Health care is not the entire story but it is the biggest part of it.

We need to lower costs. It strikes me that most sports accidents occur when the family doctors are closed, so folks default to the ER. Now, on weekends there are "family clinics" in malls where anyone can go, but as the Mrs of soccer-rugby player, I know too well that people wait to see if the pain goes away. About 10pm we're off to the ER. A little public advertising on the govt behalf could go a long ways to get folks to rethink this plan.

And street drugs. We need to get drug addicts into addiction treatment centres immediately like Portugal does.

And old folks. They need proper centres, not extensive stays in regular hospitals.

Thank you for your reply, Dr Lee. You give me a lot to think about.



hindsight wrote:And both the Social Security and medicare funds are in danger not being enough to cover future retirees.

I am not sure how we get Medicaid dollars for those that never paid a dime and probably never will. I guess that comes from both the federal and state governments stealing money from hard working people by collecting more taxes or borrowing more money so the federal government is $20,000,000,000 in debt now. How much more in debt do you wish for us to go so those that can't or don't want to work can get free healthcare?


Again, going single payer will cover everyone at half the price. You can pay down your debt with the rest. And BTW, unemployment is at a record low.
#14827114
Stormsmith wrote:Again, going single payer will cover everyone at half the price. You can pay down your debt with the rest. And BTW, unemployment is at a record low.

Just making that claim is not good enough to convince me that it is true. I am sorry, but I am not convinced that Obama had anything to do with the present unemployment rate. Anything else?
#14827115
To get back on topic:
Even long after Trump will be gone, the news media that were supposed to be trustworthy will continued to be considered partisan to at least 50% of the American people and beyond to the world wide audience.
I specifically mention CNN, New York Times and the Washington Post.
The New Yorker and The Atlantic are not far behind them in partisanship.
#14827116
Ter wrote:To get back on topic:
Even long after Trump will be gone, the news media that were supposed to be trustworthy will continued to be considered partisan to at least 50% of the American people and beyond to the world wide audience.
I specifically mention CNN, New York Times and the Washington Post.
The New Yorker and The Atlantic are not far behind them in partisanship.

I remember one "Fake News" commentator on MSNBC "Morning Joe" being upset that Trump was telling people what to think. She said, "That's our job."

Here is an article about it:


The hosts of MSNBC's 'Morning Joe' comment on President Trump's efforts to "undermine the media."

Co-host Mika Brzezinski commented Wednesday morning that she is upset to see President Trump has moved in on the media's turf when it comes to the area of mind control.

"He is trying to undermine the media and trying to make up his own facts," she said about Trump. "And it could be that while unemployment and the economy worsens, he could have undermined the messaging so much that he can actually control exactly what people think."

"And that, that is our job," she noted, referring to the media.

She tweeted later that she "said the media's job was to keep President Trump from making up his own facts, NOT that it's our job to control what people think."
#14827120
ingliz wrote:[youtube]9Yq67CjDqvw[/youtube]


:lol:

Obama speaking about Obamacare really sounds wonderful. It would be nice if it was really that wonderful for everyone.
#14827122
The point of the video isn't to show Obama speaking about Obamacare. The point is, using a sophisticated computer programme, you can make Obama appear to say anything you please.

sounds wonderful

It must have done; it fooled you.


:lol:
#14827125
ingliz wrote:The point of the video isn't to show Obama speaking about Obamacare. The point is, using a sophisticated computer programme, you can make Obama appear to say anything you please.


It must have done; it fooled you.


:lol:

No it did not fool me, because I remember him saying those things about Obamacare. Anyway, the point of the video was to make him look and sound better, not to make him say anything one chooses.
#14827126
Anyway, the point of the video was to make him look and sound better, not to make him say anything one chooses.

No, it was not.

Synthesizing Obama: Learning Lip Sync from Audio

Supasorn Suwajanakorn, Steven M. Seitz, and Ira Kemelmacher-Shlizerman, University of Washington


Artificial intelligence software could generate highly realistic fake videos of former president Barack Obama using existing audio and video clips of him, a new study finds. [...] The researchers were careful to not generate videos where they put words in Obama's mouth that he did not at some other time utter himself. However, such fake videos are “likely possible soon,” says study lead author Supasorn Suwajanakorn, a computer scientist at the University of Washington.


:lol:
#14827132
No?

One Degree wrote:[W]e are not real people, just actors reciting our lines.

A research team at the University of Alabama at Birmingham has been working on voice impersonation. With 3-5 minutes of audio of the victim's voice – taken live or from YouTube videos or radio shows – the attacker can create a synthesized voice that can fool both humans and voice biometric security systems used by some banks and smartphones, in real time.

It has nothing to do with the topic.

It fooled you.

Combine the two technologies and you would have a tool to create "news" that fools everyone.


:lol:
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