Dog lovers damage the planet - Page 9 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Pollution, global warming, urbanisation etc.
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#15061730
Stormsmith wrote:Ah, grasshopper, it's because he's Karnac the animal whisper. He sees all pets, everywhere, knows how we abuse them, what we eat, what they eat.



You hit the nail on the head. This is about power. There are those who claim to speak for the rights of animals. Yet animals can’t assert their rights. Only people can do that as only people can speak. Thus those who claim to represent animals rights are claiming to be the just advocates of animals moral concerns, and thus using a concern for animal welfare to wield power over other people.

This should be rejected outright rather than making attempts to demonstrate how well treated your pet is. It isn’t about your pet. It is about power freaks having control over you.

The environmental impact of pets is merely an excuse for such people to claim the power to decide who gets what, when and how. After all, at the heart of environmental discussions is how should resources be distributed. Those who make the choices have the power. Who would you trust to consider your interests in the decisions they make over who gets what, when and how?

@QatzelOk and @Robert Urbanek are both vegans. I just know.

Veganism isn’t just about avoiding animal products in diet. It is about animal liberation. That means no human control over animals at all. No pets, no domestication. They would rather kill all pets than let them suffer under domestication. At least that is how PETA sees it.

They see themselves as biocentric, as opposed to anthrocentric. But consider: if we were to take a truely biocentric view, we would consider humans as just another species, right. As opposed to placing special emphasis on humans as most important in our regard. So, ants farm aphids. Should those aphids be set free as per human domesticated animals? Or should we recognise farming and domestication as a natural activity? You see, the animal liberation crowd are just as anthrocentric as everyone else. It is just that they place negative value on humans rather than positive. But they still place special emphasis on humanity.

Really, the animal liberation mob are just crazed zealots using a general concern for animal welfare in the broader population to gain moral power over other people. That is: dominate their fellow humans. Typical primate power behaviour, as any genuinely biocentric person could tell you.


Take That @Robert Urbanek . Your ideology is intellectually bankrupt :eh:
#15061736
foxdemon wrote:The environmental impact of pets is merely an excuse for such people to claim the power to decide who gets what, when and how.


this is tangential, but how does this point translate to say cars?
#15061739
Besoeker2 wrote:My dog helps others, a point I made earlier and one that you ignored.

You could also say: "I use my 3-ton SUV with kangaroo bars on it to drive disabled children to their activity center." (once a year)

OTHER TALKING POINTS TO DEFEND ABUSE OF SELF-INDULGENT AND POWERFUL TECHNOLOGIES

1. I use my AK-47 to defend the homeland against those who hate my freedom.
2. This vial of coronavirus will be used to help defend Asia against invaders looking to rob us and rape our women.
3. My Rottweiler helped me find the barbecue utensils I misplaced.
4. Genocide helped alternative cultures develop all over the world.
(Point: you can defend any atrocity by claiming that it once 'helped someone')

Image

foxdemon wrote:There are those who claim to speak for the rights of animals. Yet animals can’t assert their rights. Only people can do that as only people can speak.

Exactly. So pet-owners (masters) who claim that their animal 'loves them' are simply speaking for their property who has no tongue. If you want to cut out your human slave's tongue, you can also pretend to speak for your slave and you can claim your slave 'loves you' becasue it smiles at you near feeding time or bathroom walk time.

It is about power freaks having control over you.

Pet-owners enjoy the power of life and death over a helpless animal.

claim the power to decide who gets what, when and how.

Imagine having the power to determine if an animal gets to pee or not, gets to eat or not, gets a slap across the head or not, gets to see other animals or not. What a power freak relationship.

@QatzelOk and @Robert Urbanek are both vegans. I just know.

What does my diet have to do with whether it's right or wrong to enslave animals? Are you suggesting that perhaps YOUR OWN habits are driving your opinions?

Veganism isn’t just about avoiding animal products in diet. It is about animal liberation. That means no human control over animals at all.

Just imagine losing that life-or-death control over a helpless animal. Scary, huh? :eh:
#15061740
QatzelOk wrote:You could also say: "I use my 3-ton SUV with kangaroo bars on it to drive disabled children to their activity center." (once a year)

I could but I won't because it would be a lie. I don't have a SUV and have absolutely no interest it getting one. Same with firearms.
What I can say is that my dog has given a lot of pleasure to disabled people. Remember what I posted about him being PAT certified?
#15061756
Stormsmith wrote:@QatzelOk

You said you had a cat. In what way did you 'enslave' it?



^^ Like this, but with humans instead of intelligent apes and cats instead of humans. :excited:
#15061776
foxdemon wrote:You hit the nail on the head. This is about power. There are those who claim to speak for the rights of animals. Yet animals can’t assert their rights. Only people can do that as only people can speak. Thus those who claim to represent animals rights are claiming to be the just advocates of animals moral concerns, and thus using a concern for animal welfare to wield power over other people.

This should be rejected outright rather than making attempts to demonstrate how well treated your pet is. It isn’t about your pet. It is about power freaks having control over you.

The environmental impact of pets is merely an excuse for such people to claim the power to decide who gets what, when and how. After all, at the heart of environmental discussions is how should resources be distributed. Those who make the choices have the power. Who would you trust to consider your interests in the decisions they make over who gets what, when and how?

@QatzelOk and @Robert Urbanek are both vegans. I just know.

Veganism isn’t just about avoiding animal products in diet. It is about animal liberation. That means no human control over animals at all. No pets, no domestication. They would rather kill all pets than let them suffer under domestication. At least that is how PETA sees it.

Really, the animal liberation mob are just crazed zealots using a general concern for animal welfare in the broader population to gain moral power over other people. That is: dominate their fellow humans. Typical primate power behaviour, as any genuinely biocentric person could tell you.

Take That @Robert Urbanek . Your ideology is intellectually bankrupt :eh:


This whole bit is an ad hominem.

First, you assume that all people concerned with the environmental impact of pets are evil.

Then you assume that the arguments they make are wrong because they are evil.

Both of these premises are wrong.

Some people who care about the environmental impacts of pets might be evil fascists. Most are probably not.

But even if they were all as evil as you claim, their arguments would still be just as correct (or incorrect) as if they were fine people.

They see themselves as biocentric, as opposed to anthrocentric. But consider: if we were to take a truely biocentric view, we would consider humans as just another species, right. As opposed to placing special emphasis on humans as most important in our regard. So, ants farm aphids. Should those aphids be set free as per human domesticated animals? Or should we recognise farming and domestication as a natural activity? You see, the animal liberation crowd are just as anthrocentric as everyone else. It is just that they place negative value on humans rather than positive. But they still place special emphasis on humanity.


If we farmed our livestock the way ants farm aphids (i.e. with no negative environmental impacts), food production for ourselves and our pets would be a non-issue.
#15061778
foxdemon wrote:
@QatzelOk and @Robert Urbanek are both vegans. I just know.


I am a partial vegetarian, eating eggs and dairy products, but will only eat fish or meat a couple of times per month. I changed my diet last year in response to an episode of kidney stones. I had read that vegetarians seldom get kidney stones. My doctor endorsed by change in diet.

I own two belts made of leather, an animal product.

You made a wrong assumption about me. Perhaps the rest of your comments are also based on wrong assumptions.
#15061782
Robert Urbanek wrote:
You made a wrong assumption about me. Perhaps the rest of your comments are also based on wrong assumptions.

Based on my big dog's meat consumption, your link made a wrong assumption about how much meat the average dog eats.

Care to retract that?
#15061786
Besoeker2 wrote:Based on my big dog's meat consumption, your link made a wrong assumption about how much meat the average dog eats.

Care to retract that?


That was the "assumption" of the source material, not me. Your estimate may be more correct. In any case, the meat-eating impact of nearly 90 million dogs in the U.S. alone (2017 est.) is significant.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/198100/dogs-in-the-united-states-since-2000/
#15061789
Potemkin wrote:
^^ Like this, but with humans instead of intelligent apes and cats instead of humans. :excited:


:lol:

I was worried that they used Fluffy as a pack horse.

A friend of ours, a big, tall man, once mentioned his cat slept on his bed, usually between his legs. He hated awakening the cat, and went to some pains to avoid it. 'Who, after all, needs a good night's sleep than a cat?' he asked.
#15061802
Pants-of-dog wrote:This whole bit is an ad hominem.
First, you assume that all people concerned with the environmental impact of pets are evil.
Then you assume that the arguments they make are wrong because they are evil.

But THE REASON that many posters are playing the ad hom game... is because they 'wuv der widow doggie.' (love their little doggy)

Now if you walked into a group of heroin addicts and started criticizing their habit (you're all sick, you have allowed your babies to die of negligence, you are committing crimes to support your addiction), they will retort with 'We wuv our widdle syringes..." and then they will fade into unconsciousness.

Addiction doesn't allow for rational thought.

Besoeker2 wrote:I don't have a SUV
Godstud wrote:Dogs = SUVs= Ak47s? What absolute rubbish. A moronic primitivist view.

My point about Dogs=SUVs=AK-47s was that, if you only look at the positives of something, then you are marketing it to other people (or to yourself), rather than trying to understand it and make a rational decision about it. A refusal to look at the downside of new products may eventually lead to human extinction, so it's pretty serious.[/quote]

Stormsmith wrote:You said you had a cat. In what way did you 'enslave' it?

My cat was an ugly stray that I helped a neighbor catch (with its mom and young sibling). The other two got the giant needle, like most abandoned cats do.

Slaves in the Olde South didn't do much better if their masters abandoned them.

Anyway, a stray who is used to learning to hunt outside... needed to be broken (trained) and de-clawed (yikes). Eventually, she gave up on her independence and her social need for other cats, and became a normal, neurotic house-toy.
#15061825
QatzelOk wrote:Anyway, a stray who is used to learning to hunt outside... needed to be broken (trained) and de-clawed (yikes). Eventually, she gave up on her independence and her social need for other cats, and became a normal, neurotic house-toy.

Kudos to you for rescuing a stray, Qatz. Our own cat was also a stray for the first four years of his life. But we had no need to 'break' him or house-train him and we certainly didn't de-claw him. He usually sharpens his claws on my bedroom carpet. I never liked that carpet anyway. And he goes out several times each day to beat up the neighbourhood cats, who used to beat him up when he was a stray. Lol. :D
#15061828
Potemkin wrote:Kudos to you for rescuing a stray, Qatz. Our own cat was also a stray for the first four years of his life. But we had no need to 'break' him or house-train him and we certainly didn't de-claw him. He usually sharpens his claws on my bedroom carpet. I never liked that carpet anyway. And he goes out several times each day to beat up the neighbourhood cats, who used to beat him up when he was a stray. Lol. :D


Well, darling, I have an update on Mouser the stray cat. He doesn't leave my driveway. He says by his actions, "The food is here. The water is here. I bust a move to get inside the house where it is cooler....the street is not for me...I am loafing about." I got an issue now, there is a calico cat who feeds off of Mouser's bowl of food. He waits for the pesky humans to not be near and muscles his way into Mouser's food bowl.

What to do I say? I don't want to pay for more cat food. Hmmm. What is your advice oh sage one with cats?

Mouser by the way, is sweet as pie, he purrs so well when petted, is very affectionate and when let in tries to sharpen his claws on my brand new furniture. I don't let him. He can do that on the palm tree outside. He has the habit of lounging inside a big ceramic Mexican clay pot and sleeping in there inside some cardboard I left for recycling.

My son loves that cat. What to do?
#15061835
Tainari88 wrote:Well, darling, I have an update on Mouser the stray cat. He doesn't leave my driveway. He says by his actions, "The food is here. The water is here. I bust a move to get inside the house where it is cooler....the street is not for me...I am loafing about." I got an issue now, there is a calico cat who feeds off of Mouser's bowl of food. He waits for the pesky humans to not be near and muscles his way into Mouser's food bowl.

What to do I say? I don't want to pay for more cat food. Hmmm. What is your advice oh sage one with cats?

Mouser by the way, is sweet as pie, he purrs so well when petted, is very affectionate and when let in tries to sharpen his claws on my brand new furniture. I don't let him. He can do that on the palm tree outside. He has the habit of lounging inside a big ceramic Mexican clay pot and sleeping in there inside some cardboard I left for recycling.

My son loves that cat. What to do?

Hmm.... have you tried putting Mouser's food somewhere the calico cat can't reach it? I have no idea where that could be. Sorry. Lol.

Mouse sounds like a wonderful cat, querida. He'll be a great friend to your son. :)
#15061861
Potemkin wrote:Hmm.... have you tried putting Mouser's food somewhere the calico cat can't reach it? I have no idea where that could be. Sorry. Lol.

Mouse sounds like a wonderful cat, querida. He'll be a great friend to your son. :)


Mouser loves him. Lol. That cat meows a lot when he sees my boy.

I think he needs to spend more time on Dulce de Coco and help her get trained well. The cat is independent. Dogs require a lot more work in educating and training them well.

He loves them both....but Mouser is the most attached to a human cat I have ever witnessed. He would be quite content following my son around for the rest of his existence. Hee hee.

Animals are beautiful creatures. Pure of heart and full of instinct and full of nature's laws. I wish we would not be so incredibly complicated with our human loves and human attentions with each other.

Simple and pure love that is untainted by much else is always the best kind.
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